The stock LS1 is way under rated by GM. He's wasting money on mods with out proper tuning. I know of 2 2002 LS1 F-bods running much better times with less mods than that. Agreed on the tires, dropping a tenth in the '60 is good for 2 tenths on the big end but the trap speed indicates true HP.

BTW Sully, Uncle Ben knows your car. He checked it out a few months ago at a certain shop in the O-town area. When's the FI getting done?

 

Actually most Vette owners are running 350-360 stock; our stock dyno was equivalent to 356 at the engine.

I talked to Mike about FI, but want a system that will fit under the stock hood. I like the SLEEPER look.

 

Tuning at best would net me another tenth-not much more than that-I hardly think that is a waste of mods. I know guys with heads & cam w/o tuning-and I think that may cost them quite a few more tenths & drivability.

Some cars are just built a little better that others, and track conditions and temps vary. I have no problems-if you think my car is slow compared to other Camaros with similar mods-it's entirely possible.

My last (and only with htis car) best runs were back to back after a 1.5 hour drive, with coolant at 200+ degrees (not optimum), and lift shifting SLOWER than I normally would on the street to avoid the serious wheel hop I was getting. Maybe if I had a change to get it down another 30 degrees (and than apply that added HP & TQ to the ground) I might get another MPH out of her.

I am sure those Camaros ran under optimum conditions

 

Why do people talk about lift shifting like it slows you down. I have never nor will I ever hold the throttle down while pressing the clutch, that is just asking for trouble.

 

i dont think he was bad mouthing it, he was just saying he did it slower than normal to prevent wheel hop.

 

To be Honest Eric it does slow u down if you lift your foot while shifting. Your rpms drop below the car's powerband. My first time out on slicks I was hesitant(sp?) to powershift so I was running 12.8's. Then said fuck it and ran time in sig. Same launch rpms on all passes. I would say it's good for atleast 3 tenths if u power shift. If it doesn't break, your not driving it hard enough!
-Mark

 

i havent had that happen to me(the rpm drops so much), ill take the car to about 6500, press the clutch in shift, and try to go WOT right after i let the clutch out...all that is about .2 or .3 seconds(might be longer, but its just you do it so quick, or u think you are ,you dont really know how quick it is unless you time it) and it drops in around 5k (depending on what gear it is)

plus i think i would just lift instead of trying to play russian roullette with my tranny to get another .3 off my time...

 

Sorry for the long spiel, but I can't shorten it any other way. I apologize now if I'm preaching to the choir...

It's not so much you "lose" on the lift shift, it's what you don't gain. The "proper" way to shift a car with minimum drivetrain damage and stress is to take to take it to the sweet spot in the RPM range, lift of the gas at the same time depressing the clutch (so smoothly, it's as if it never happened), and shifting than re-engaging the clutch at the correct rpm point w/o losing vehicle momentum or disrupting the engine revs (or even having the car shudder. Think of it as a proper engagement of the engine, transmission, and rear wheels). Can actually be very tricky under engine load.

Powershifting/speedshifting or quick-lift shifting do the opposite- they cause the car to jump, shudder, and more often than not-leap forward a few feet.

Example ever do a "neutral drop" on a crappy car with an automatic...? You rev it up in neutral, and than drop it into drive from a stop? Power/speed shifting is the same thing through all forward gears having a positive effect on your timeslip-your engine brifly overrevs while the clutch is depressed, and as you re-engage the engine rotational momentum cause you to leap forward. Bad news...? Your engine, clutch, trans, rear hate life-especially if you miss the next gear-it equals overrevved engine, worns synchros, metal shavings in your trans fluid and a look on the spectators faces that says it all. OUCH!!

So by quick lift shifting, I am banging my shifts fast w/o danger of an over-rev or smoked clutch (C5 weak points, along with the shifter) but I since I don't quite match the revs in time (they are still up at 5800 rpms) the engines rotational momentum cause the tires to bark as they try to match 5800 in the next higher gear in .25 of a second. With my foot off the gas, the revs get yanked down but I'm still into the car's momentum. So I don't lose-but I don't gain either. At the track with the runcraps I had to slow that shift down even further-if I disrupted the suspension by breaking the tires-I would get violent wheel hop.

 

My definition of Speed Shifting for this post is to stay WOT while shifting gears.

I am not an idiot you don't have to explain the obvious with no real explainations!

I understand where you think you are gaining. However I believe the speed of the shift is more important than where the rpms are. The RPMs are going to be determined by gear ratios and speed.

Now with that said, speed shifting can be benefit if you are completely out of your power band and the clutch or tires slip just enough to raise your RPMs in the power band until the wheel speed is high enough to put you motor in the power band. Also I believe that most people shift faster(physical arm movement) when they "speed shift" because they are trying harder, thus giving better results.

Another note, most cars do not have such crappy gears where you fall completely out of your power band during shifts. If you do, maybe you should shift at a higher RPM or change your gearing completly.

I shift as fast as my transmission can handle it while lifting the throttle and I don't fall out of any power band and have not in any car I have ever owned and most I have driven.

I think you guys should try shifting at different RPM points and try shifting faster while lifting and you will probably notice that you aren't losing time from not power shifting. Remember if you shift faster than your engine can drop RPMs under no throttle(I hope you can) then your engine will still be revving higher than your wheel speed when you let the clutch back out. Also I notice some people have problems timing the throttle and clutch together, you should be on the throttle as the clutch is coming out.

 

Your serious? So what your saying is that by not lifting your foot of the gas and shifting that your losing momentum? But when u lift your foot off the gas to shift your not losing momentum? That's funny cause everytime I shift my car(gas pedal never leaves the floorboard) my car lurches forward. But if I were to lift on the gas the nose takes a dive. With your car running on crappy radials u have to lift cause now u have the issue of no traction into the equation. Take a pass with some 15" DR's or slicks. Make a pass lifting the gas then make one powershifting. You'll see the difference in mph. I do everytime I race. If I don't powershift my mph is down. -Mark