not public perception, and thats something the B3 have a huge problem with right now.

 

We can't just toss them $25 billion and the problem's solved. They'll keep hemorrhaging billions of dollars per quarter and we'll be back where we started in six months. It doesn't look like the economy will take an unexpected turn and shoot to new highs in six months, with people flocking to dealerships to buy Escalades and Ram pickups again.

The big 3 need to restructure, they need to dump all of the dying and irrelevant brands and excess dealer capacity and pension/healthcare liabilities and the UNIONS. If they do it through bankruptcy it will put a serious short-term hurting on our already battered economy. So like others have said, we can't let them fail, and bailing them out will achieve little. Lose/lose.

How about this- bail out the Big 3, but only after they commit to a restructuring plan that puts them on a path to long-term success. They stay alive and maybe our $25 billion doesn't go to immediate waste. The problem is that it's political suicide. They'd be cutting jobs, closing plants, closing dealers, breaking the unions, and doing all sorts of other nasty things no politician would touch with a ten foot poll number. I don't think any real change can happen without the legal protection of chapter 11.

 

the problem with going chapter 11 its not like the air lines (a couple years ago)... I buy a plane ticket for next week im not worried the air line is not going to be there in a week .... I buy a brand new (insert big 3 three car) im worried who is going to honor my warranty in 2 years when i need help and were are the parts coming from when the suppliers go too....

VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO BUY A CAR FROM A BANKRUPT COMPANY....

too small to sustain the company afloat...

 

I agree but I wonder how long it would take for the B3 to agree to anything like this and I wonder how many of their dollars would be thrown at Congress to get their way in the new deal.

They all showed up in their own private jets. What is that?

We went to the Pontiac dealer yesterday looking at a new G8 GT. While it is a nice car the performance side of the car failed. The salesman ... I don't know; he didn't know much about the car and really seemed beaten down about even selling it. It was like here is our Red Tag price, take it or leave it.

Then we went to the Mercedes Porsche Audi dealer and they were moving two cars off the lot through deals as we were sitting there. Their salesmen knew a lot about the cars and were doing their sales pitch but without the pressure.

Oh man they had 3 Austin Martins there, including an Advantage (it was Sold) that were just sick. They had a BMW M6 that is really nice, the price was very nice for being an 06, and the car handled like it should. I don't think he'll buy it for several reasons but he liked it way better than a car he thought he would really want (the G8 ) after driving it.

If the B3 are bailed out then they need to do some real thinking. They need to change up everything. They need to get out in the public, invite them out for test rides and show what their cars are worth.

And for heavens sake they need to quit making their economy cars quit feeling like little crossover and mini vans. Have you sat in the drivers seat aka a high chair. My legs hurt every time I have to rent one. They simply suck! You are looking down at the road in a car? What is that? And their fuel mileage? C'mon.

 

at you people blaming the unions. the ceo's and corporate douches working for the big 3 rake in millions and millions of dollars in bonus and salary, yet you cry foul that the worker who actually makes the car has the union behind them to ensure that they at least get decent paycheck and benefits? i guarantee if you were working for those people you would need a union behind you too. unless maybe you want your cars built by mexicans for $7 an hour, use your fuckin brains sometimes people, would you??? if some of the ludicrous salaries going to corporate boobies went toward research and development of newer more efficient fuel systems and phasing out the dinosaurs of the road, maybe this predicament wouldnt be so bad and the government would at least see the big 3 making an attempt to do the right thing. instead, they show up in corporate flights costing over 20k a piece with tin cups and there hands askin for money and were absolutely clueless on how to reply to uncle sam when he asked what they would do with OUR money...i can honestly say for once im proud of our government for telling them to hit the road.

 

^I dont think you know exactly what all a union does.

 

The best thing about tr is all of the people here are fucking experts.

If i'm not mistaken about the green issue I beleive Gm sells more different cars that get 30mpg or more then any other company. Granted alot of them are the same car sold with slightly different stuff.

If the unions aren't one of the biggest problems with cost of making these cars why is it that all the import companies set up shop away from all that non sense?

It does piss me off that these companies are on the brink of failure and the unions aren't even willing to try and give a bit to help the company stay afloat.

My best guess of ways to help them would be to not lend them 25b period. There is some money in the green fund that could be freed up but i'm not for that either.
I think you have to help get them some capitol freed up and you can start that by loaning money. You can also help with tax breaks as those are coming due.
The unions at this point for the big3 are a cancer that needs to be adressed. Here in the u.s.a. we have the second highest business tax, by cutting this tax it would allow the parts companies to sell thier product for less and make it so the raw cost of a new car could go down. This would also incourage american companies to do business here and they could afford to do it.

If the things listed above work how I think they would it would increase jobs here over time and allow domestic car companies to get back into the game.

The big3 should also work on the milage issues. I know there are improvments. The people who say they are not looking to the future must have forgot the new cafe standards they are currently working to meet in the next few years. This has cost them alot of money to meet the new requirements but sure isn't a bad thing in the end. With having to deal with ever increasing cafe standards they absolutely have an eye on the future, just wish they would move further then just required. Sad thing is ford (my fav car company) has cars that get awesome milage that they refuse to sell here.

Thats my non expert opinion.

 

considering my summer job is union, my dads job is union, and my brothers job is union, i'd say i know exactly what a union does. the only way i would not work union is if i was working for myself (which is what i do down here in the wintertimes), employers in right to work states hold all the cards, and they can (and will, and do) pay dirt wages and treat workers like shit. it seems to me like most of the people with something bad to say about unions, are not union workers, which is not a coincidence.

 

Ion isn't even made. anymore. Failed car.

Dodge Caliber = Base MSRP* $19,890
Pontiac G5 = Base MSRP * 17,650

Just to name a few from your list. You can't even compare those cars to what the Japanese Car makers or Korean Car makers have to offer. They are offering cars for under. 15,000 with better gas milage. There is no comparasin anymore in my opinion.

Plus America needs to learn how to set up better trade Rules. Korean car companies can ship millions of cars over here and sell them, BUT why can we only sell cars in the thousands over there. Its not fair and right to the American people and The BIG 3 auto makers know this and shows they dont care...


Nissan Versa <------* If your not looking for the Luxary model of these cars *
Huyndai Elentra <------All three for under 11,000
Kia Rio <------Look them up if you dont believe me
<------They advertise it all the time in the paper

 

well they going to go back to d.c next thrusday with a plan!
it should be =

better cars that people want! this means design cars that are just as good or as nice as the eruo and japanees cars. ford needs to update it u.s market if this means bring ove rthe badass sexy cars they make in the u.k then do it!! gm just need to make something don't care what it is and stop rebadging newzealand cars as old u.s models (gto= holden merono ) they need to make cars that seem to be more up to date and just as freash as the imports . i like gm but there cars always seem to be two to three years behind the imports if not longer.

chrysler just need to make cars! i m ean do they even do anymore? if so you don't hear about them only the hemi what evers and nothing else.


unions= you guys realy need to lighten up at lease for now untill the car companys get back on track . i mean they do alot of good but they drive the price up too it cost toyota like 2000$ dolors per car for it workers . but it cost the big three on average somewhere like 5000-7000 percar for its workers and most of that its to pays for union stuff so ya the imports feel and look better because they have more money to spend in there cars.


stop with the stupid high end car crap! the suv market is dead the high end car market is on life support. the u.s car comapnys tend to make realy nic high end cars or trucks but the lower end cars and trucks suck


the main thing is that for the last 15 year or so we all had this me 1st life style that cool but it sucks because everything is only about me and everything else suffers. make all the money you can and who cares if its right or safe is what the big three and the banks have been doing