e85 stations
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back in a 4g63
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as for GST racer....why does every think the word ignorant is abusive or rude, especially when it is used properly?...maybe I was a bit aggressive in my reply to a gross statement packed full of incorrect and unsupported statements...I'll try and tone it back a bit.
I'd rep you all, but I've given out too much rep.
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you'll also find a lot of the negatives are related to flex fuel vehicles which aren't designed to run on ethanol so much as they are designed to tolerate it and gasoline.
Ethanol needs lots of cylinder pressure to become an efficient fuel. I.E. an engine I built on E85 was 11.5:1 CR with 19 psi and no intercooler
The other downside is the crop/field comments, which are pretty much solved by cellulose development. Much like algae to biodiesel.
By all means, bounce your ethanol views off of me as I've done lots of research, design, joint projects (Dartmouth, MIT, GA Tech and ODU/NASA) and been in several SAE/international level lectures on alternative fuels.
as for GST racer....why does every think the word ignorant is abusive or rude, especially when it is used properly?...maybe I was a bit aggressive in my reply to a gross statement packed full of incorrect and unsupported statements...I'll try and tone it back a bit.
Ethanol needs lots of cylinder pressure to become an efficient fuel. I.E. an engine I built on E85 was 11.5:1 CR with 19 psi and no intercooler
The other downside is the crop/field comments, which are pretty much solved by cellulose development. Much like algae to biodiesel.
By all means, bounce your ethanol views off of me as I've done lots of research, design, joint projects (Dartmouth, MIT, GA Tech and ODU/NASA) and been in several SAE/international level lectures on alternative fuels.
as for GST racer....why does every think the word ignorant is abusive or rude, especially when it is used properly?...maybe I was a bit aggressive in my reply to a gross statement packed full of incorrect and unsupported statements...I'll try and tone it back a bit.
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Ok, I just spoke with a service station owner tonight and apparently he's going to run this in a turbo project car he's building. He'll be getting barrels of it in the mean time.
I told him that there would be plenty of people willing to stop by and buy a few gallons off him....
I told him that there would be plenty of people willing to stop by and buy a few gallons off him....
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It can be as good and if done in a certain manner, can be better. Hi compression forced induction with a lean burn will increase fuel economy.
I'll see if I can find one of the old MIT papers on it.
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A little late to the thread, I had a thread up about this last yr as well.
There is a station out in Orlando at the turnpike.
E85 Fuel Stations
This forum may have ethanol info
New Station: Florida
And I laugh at the people who post bullshit about how ethanol doesnt work, or how its inefficient, and how its going to eat at your fuel lines etc.
Once people pay attention and start seeing how much power people are getting out of e85 then the bastards will be tripping over there laces trying to make the switch.
e85 is rated at 106 octane but it burns cool like methanol and at least in the dsm community, gstracer your right, people are getting c16 type tunes out of them.
Like 30 plus psi on their daily drivers with full timing advance, and lean burn tunes to get more mpg back out of the fuel. There are ways to improve mechanical efficiency to get your lose of mpg back out of e85 fuel. Hence building a higher compression motor, and thus benefiting from more power as well from dramatically increased combustion pressures without knock.
I.E. DSM's come 7;8:1 CR stock on the 1g, id have no fear building a 10.1 compression motor on a pure e85 street car.
Most cars built in the 90s and later are actually able to run ethanol. Even if it did deteriorate components some, its probably at such a slow rate anyways. The only immediate thing one should worry about is replacing their fuel filter after a couple hundred miles as the e85 cleans out all the crap in the tank/lines and its known to get caught up in the fuel filter. Other than that people have gone 50+ thousand miles with no other issues with the e85 on their daily drivers.
I cant wait till they give us some e85 stations but that could be a long time away.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/featu...5451013.column
So for me, rather then waiting around, once my cars back on the road I will just have two maps for the car, one for 93 octane and one for e85 and Ill be making the trip to orlando to fill up and bringing probably four, 7 gal gas bins with me to also fill up so I can have at least 28 spare gallons of the stuff to store at home, and on a non daily driver that should easily last a month or two so Id only have to make the trip once every other month, and for what Im trying to do it will be worth it since I refuse to pay 9 dollars for some shitty 110 octane.
There is a station out in Orlando at the turnpike.
E85 Fuel Stations
This forum may have ethanol info
New Station: Florida
And I laugh at the people who post bullshit about how ethanol doesnt work, or how its inefficient, and how its going to eat at your fuel lines etc.
Once people pay attention and start seeing how much power people are getting out of e85 then the bastards will be tripping over there laces trying to make the switch.
e85 is rated at 106 octane but it burns cool like methanol and at least in the dsm community, gstracer your right, people are getting c16 type tunes out of them.
Like 30 plus psi on their daily drivers with full timing advance, and lean burn tunes to get more mpg back out of the fuel. There are ways to improve mechanical efficiency to get your lose of mpg back out of e85 fuel. Hence building a higher compression motor, and thus benefiting from more power as well from dramatically increased combustion pressures without knock.
I.E. DSM's come 7;8:1 CR stock on the 1g, id have no fear building a 10.1 compression motor on a pure e85 street car.
Most cars built in the 90s and later are actually able to run ethanol. Even if it did deteriorate components some, its probably at such a slow rate anyways. The only immediate thing one should worry about is replacing their fuel filter after a couple hundred miles as the e85 cleans out all the crap in the tank/lines and its known to get caught up in the fuel filter. Other than that people have gone 50+ thousand miles with no other issues with the e85 on their daily drivers.
I cant wait till they give us some e85 stations but that could be a long time away.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/featu...5451013.column
So for me, rather then waiting around, once my cars back on the road I will just have two maps for the car, one for 93 octane and one for e85 and Ill be making the trip to orlando to fill up and bringing probably four, 7 gal gas bins with me to also fill up so I can have at least 28 spare gallons of the stuff to store at home, and on a non daily driver that should easily last a month or two so Id only have to make the trip once every other month, and for what Im trying to do it will be worth it since I refuse to pay 9 dollars for some shitty 110 octane.
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Last edited by Black_Bullet; Feb 4, 2009 at 06:54 AM.
Thread Starter
back in a 4g63
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well said man. yeah, i had high hopes for e85 but unfortunately i sold my car. maybe in the future. i had dreams of building an awd de-stroker, dual fuel systems, a huge turbo. e85 was going to be the race gas/tune for it.
i hate myself lol
i hate myself lol
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Well i'm thinking this is a serious question so let me see if I can shed some light on it for you.
First to answer you quote.
Lower power- on the flex fuel vehicle it doesn't take advantage of the higher octane. If one was so inclined you could actually increase performance in way of a tune/chip (or more timing for older cars with a distributer). Also to be noted the lack of performance was very very little.
Lower mpg- absolutely true and to be expected. The key differenceis 85% of the fuel is made from corn which is produced here in america (keeps money here and pays our farmers which in turn bolsters our economy). If they gear up to really produce e-85 then the cost will drop a good bit which is alot more then can be said for the current oil costs.
Cost- see above and again to mention sending tons of money over to the middle east and to chavez rather then keeping it here in our states. Also in case you didn't know as late as a few years ago (when I lived in Indiana) the government would pay the farmers to not plant certain crops (mainly corn) to help keep supply and demand in check. If we could stop paying people to not do something and get back to paying people to produce more to help keep prices low it makes good sense.
As for why I would like to see us start using more ethanol based fuels it will help out the economy here and hurt it over in places run by people we don't see eye to eye with.
I like the performance that you can get using e-85 and if we had a station here I would use it in my turbo car. It's cheaper then race fuel and has alot more octane then premium pump fuel and is at least 70 cents a gallon cheaper. (based on premium being 3.82 today and e-85 being 2.86 ) In a tuner/muscle car you can take advantage of the octane to the tune. (my car being able to run and extra 6 psi and 4 degrees of timing means another 85rwhp-100 ft/pds dyno proven, as thats how I run on a blend of 93 and 110 being about 100 octane. Might be able to get more as e-85 is 103 octane)
I don't think we should convert to e-85 for the emissions strictly.
I also don't think we should get rid of gas and only use e-85 as if we had a bad crop season we could be in for some problems. I do think we should use it alot more then we do now though.
If nothing else math shows why it makes sense.
On gas the tahoe got 18.5 mpg
On e-85 it got 13.5 mpg
A difference of 26.5%
Premium gas today at 3.82 average
Regular was 3.47 average
e-85 (higher octance then premium) 2.86 average
Thats .96 in difference so even if it gets 26.5 % less fuel milage the e-85 is still less expensive by a bit mile to mile. (35% would make it about the same as premium fuel)
It is a .61 difference over regular means e-85 would cost slightly more to run.
So if you put regular in your driver (if you even can as alot of nicer performance cars require premium from the factory) its a bit cheaper and your money leaves the states to run it. Don't count on this being the case for long as prices continue to go up daily with no end in sight. When the difference crosses 75 cents you might as well buy the e-85 as its the same money.
What was your complaint about e-85 again?
Gas price source - http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/
First to answer you quote.
Lower power- on the flex fuel vehicle it doesn't take advantage of the higher octane. If one was so inclined you could actually increase performance in way of a tune/chip (or more timing for older cars with a distributer). Also to be noted the lack of performance was very very little.
Lower mpg- absolutely true and to be expected. The key differenceis 85% of the fuel is made from corn which is produced here in america (keeps money here and pays our farmers which in turn bolsters our economy). If they gear up to really produce e-85 then the cost will drop a good bit which is alot more then can be said for the current oil costs.
Cost- see above and again to mention sending tons of money over to the middle east and to chavez rather then keeping it here in our states. Also in case you didn't know as late as a few years ago (when I lived in Indiana) the government would pay the farmers to not plant certain crops (mainly corn) to help keep supply and demand in check. If we could stop paying people to not do something and get back to paying people to produce more to help keep prices low it makes good sense.
As for why I would like to see us start using more ethanol based fuels it will help out the economy here and hurt it over in places run by people we don't see eye to eye with.
I like the performance that you can get using e-85 and if we had a station here I would use it in my turbo car. It's cheaper then race fuel and has alot more octane then premium pump fuel and is at least 70 cents a gallon cheaper. (based on premium being 3.82 today and e-85 being 2.86 ) In a tuner/muscle car you can take advantage of the octane to the tune. (my car being able to run and extra 6 psi and 4 degrees of timing means another 85rwhp-100 ft/pds dyno proven, as thats how I run on a blend of 93 and 110 being about 100 octane. Might be able to get more as e-85 is 103 octane)
I don't think we should convert to e-85 for the emissions strictly.
I also don't think we should get rid of gas and only use e-85 as if we had a bad crop season we could be in for some problems. I do think we should use it alot more then we do now though.
If nothing else math shows why it makes sense.
On gas the tahoe got 18.5 mpg
On e-85 it got 13.5 mpg
A difference of 26.5%
Premium gas today at 3.82 average
Regular was 3.47 average
e-85 (higher octance then premium) 2.86 average
Thats .96 in difference so even if it gets 26.5 % less fuel milage the e-85 is still less expensive by a bit mile to mile. (35% would make it about the same as premium fuel)
It is a .61 difference over regular means e-85 would cost slightly more to run.
So if you put regular in your driver (if you even can as alot of nicer performance cars require premium from the factory) its a bit cheaper and your money leaves the states to run it. Don't count on this being the case for long as prices continue to go up daily with no end in sight. When the difference crosses 75 cents you might as well buy the e-85 as its the same money.
What was your complaint about e-85 again?
Gas price source - http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/
Nice calculations. Kinda beats my arguement. I rather see the money here spent in the states, and comming back to the people rather then spending it and sending it to other countries.
My boss has a Chevy Flexefuel car and he said the gas mileage is bad in his car when he tried it out.
What about using one of those Octaine boosters like at autozone. If you use the E85 to fill up the tank and have one of those octaine boosters would that help increase the MPG ???
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Last edited by CoRDiTe; Feb 5, 2009 at 05:01 AM.
