Ricksta MR2 Build Thread
grease monkey!
Joined: Oct 2003
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Both AEM and the Hydra Nemesis 2.5, heck even it's predecessor (SDR) >> MS.
WOT, max load tuning is a joke. The simplest of EMS's like the MS can handle it. A good EMS holds its worth in drivability, emissions, fuel economy, and every other aspect besides bragging right numbers from peak hp and torque.
WOT, max load tuning is a joke. The simplest of EMS's like the MS can handle it. A good EMS holds its worth in drivability, emissions, fuel economy, and every other aspect besides bragging right numbers from peak hp and torque.
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
grease monkey!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,718
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what does he charge to tune? i have a good base map for when my setup is done, but it will need fine tuned.
__________________
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
The Asian Pimp Daddy
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Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
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I never said it wasn't able to tune part throttle, light load tuning. My implication is that drivability is par at best.
Trigger filtration sucks with MS, drivability is mediocre. I haven't seen first hand their newest stuff, but the early MSII's had poorly written codes. Simple (and essential IMO) aspects like knock control takes a back seats since it's lesser priority processing.
Now, will MS work as a cheap solution to an EMS. Yes, just don't expect it to perform wonders. Even the AEM/Nemesis/PFC are just entry level EMS's, but do much better job than MS in the grand scheme of things.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's only my opinion. Everyone's entitled to one.
If you say so...
But if I had that mentality, I would've recommended Autronic-M400/Tec3 over both AEM and Hydra.
Trigger filtration sucks with MS, drivability is mediocre. I haven't seen first hand their newest stuff, but the early MSII's had poorly written codes. Simple (and essential IMO) aspects like knock control takes a back seats since it's lesser priority processing.
Now, will MS work as a cheap solution to an EMS. Yes, just don't expect it to perform wonders. Even the AEM/Nemesis/PFC are just entry level EMS's, but do much better job than MS in the grand scheme of things.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's only my opinion. Everyone's entitled to one.
If you say so...
But if I had that mentality, I would've recommended Autronic-M400/Tec3 over both AEM and Hydra.
Last edited by BoZ05; Dec 24, 2007 at 07:53 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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The Map Ecu 2 from PHR looks more promising than the Map Ecu. Still a piggyback that alters the AFM signal much like what the VPC did. Therefore altering the fuel maps, essentially alters the AFM signal going to the stock ECU thereby causing massive amounts of changes to the timing curve. If you don't understand how, then read my posts in mr2.com, mr2oc.com and emspowered.com on how an SAFC directly affects the timing output from a stock ECU. My board name is Sang over there.
Some are going to argue that the Map ECU is not the same as an SAFC, while true, the principles are still the same...you're manipulating the AFM signal to force the stock ECU to do what you want.
Now, the benefit from the specs I read about the Map2 is that this one can control timing as well. Now, it sounds like a benefit, but keep in mind...you'll be walking a very fine line with tuning the timing. No one has yet, been able to exactly determine how much timing advance you'll get from the stock ECU when it see's significantly less load. Aaron at ATS has at one point, but only to a few %'s, nothing like the extreme cases you'll run into. So make sure you have a damn good tuner if you go this route.
Now I say this in regards to your setup in particular, because i've read your threads on mr2oc, and gave you some recommendations on your fuel setup. The power you are looking for is going to need in excess of 800cc/mins and larger injectors. That is almost TWICE the size of the stock injectors. Now, think about how much fuel you are going to have to tell the stock ECU to pull away during part throttle, low load situations. Now think about what I said above and removing fuel, essentially screwing with one of the axis of the AFM's signal. Thus the ECU predicts less load based on those altered values, ergo you get timing advance.
Long story short...dreams of lots of power, and piggybacks are a no-no with the mr2's ecu. I'd go with MS over any piggyback...
As I said before, WOT tuning is the easy part. You wont have to mess with the timing curve much, but you'll be depending on boost pressure to lean out your AFR's. Leaners AFR's, less fuel you'll have to remove, less timing advance you get.
My $.02
-Sang
Some are going to argue that the Map ECU is not the same as an SAFC, while true, the principles are still the same...you're manipulating the AFM signal to force the stock ECU to do what you want.
Now, the benefit from the specs I read about the Map2 is that this one can control timing as well. Now, it sounds like a benefit, but keep in mind...you'll be walking a very fine line with tuning the timing. No one has yet, been able to exactly determine how much timing advance you'll get from the stock ECU when it see's significantly less load. Aaron at ATS has at one point, but only to a few %'s, nothing like the extreme cases you'll run into. So make sure you have a damn good tuner if you go this route.
Now I say this in regards to your setup in particular, because i've read your threads on mr2oc, and gave you some recommendations on your fuel setup. The power you are looking for is going to need in excess of 800cc/mins and larger injectors. That is almost TWICE the size of the stock injectors. Now, think about how much fuel you are going to have to tell the stock ECU to pull away during part throttle, low load situations. Now think about what I said above and removing fuel, essentially screwing with one of the axis of the AFM's signal. Thus the ECU predicts less load based on those altered values, ergo you get timing advance.
Long story short...dreams of lots of power, and piggybacks are a no-no with the mr2's ecu. I'd go with MS over any piggyback...
As I said before, WOT tuning is the easy part. You wont have to mess with the timing curve much, but you'll be depending on boost pressure to lean out your AFR's. Leaners AFR's, less fuel you'll have to remove, less timing advance you get.
My $.02
-Sang
Last edited by BoZ05; Dec 26, 2007 at 01:03 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 124
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BTW - Hate to hijack (but I don't veture far from the Toyota tech forums) Anyone know of anyplace in tampa that stocks earls fittings and hoses? PM me if you do so this discussion doesn't take this thread off topic 
I'd prefer not to buy online, if I did i'd just get it from the company I work for. I just don't feel like waiting on shipping since we don't stock the fittings i'll need.
I'd prefer not to buy online, if I did i'd just get it from the company I work for. I just don't feel like waiting on shipping since we don't stock the fittings i'll need.
Last edited by BoZ05; Dec 26, 2007 at 01:04 PM.
Thread Starter
I FUCK LIKE A PORNSTAR
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,012
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The Map Ecu 2 from PHR looks more promising than the Map Ecu. Still a piggyback that alters the AFM signal much like what the VPC did. Therefore altering the fuel maps, essentially alters the AFM signal going to the stock ECU thereby causing massive amounts of changes to the timing curve. If you don't understand how, then read my posts in mr2.com, mr2oc.com and emspowered.com on how an SAFC directly affects the timing output from a stock ECU. My board name is Sang over there.
Some are going to argue that the Map ECU is not the same as an SAFC, while true, the principles are still the same...you're manipulating the AFM signal to force the stock ECU to do what you want.
Now, the benefit from the specs I read about the Map2 is that this one can control timing as well. Now, it sounds like a benefit, but keep in mind...you'll be walking a very fine line with tuning the timing. No one has yet, been able to exactly determine how much timing advance you'll get from the stock ECU when it see's significantly less load. Aaron at ATS has at one point, but only to a few %'s, nothing like the extreme cases you'll run into. So make sure you have a damn good tuner if you go this route.
Now I say this in regards to your setup in particular, because i've read your threads on mr2oc, and gave you some recommendations on your fuel setup. The power you are looking for is going to need in excess of 800cc/mins and larger injectors. That is almost TWICE the size of the stock injectors. Now, think about how much fuel you are going to have to tell the stock ECU to pull away during part throttle, low load situations. Now think about what I said above and removing fuel, essentially screwing with one of the axis of the AFM's signal. Thus the ECU predicts less load based on those altered values, ergo you get timing advance.
Long story short...dreams of lots of power, and piggybacks are a no-no with the mr2's ecu. I'd go with MS over any piggyback...
As I said before, WOT tuning is the easy part. You wont have to mess with the timing curve much, but you'll be depending on boost pressure to lean out your AFR's. Leaners AFR's, less fuel you'll have to remove, less timing advance you get.
My $.02
-Sang
Some are going to argue that the Map ECU is not the same as an SAFC, while true, the principles are still the same...you're manipulating the AFM signal to force the stock ECU to do what you want.
Now, the benefit from the specs I read about the Map2 is that this one can control timing as well. Now, it sounds like a benefit, but keep in mind...you'll be walking a very fine line with tuning the timing. No one has yet, been able to exactly determine how much timing advance you'll get from the stock ECU when it see's significantly less load. Aaron at ATS has at one point, but only to a few %'s, nothing like the extreme cases you'll run into. So make sure you have a damn good tuner if you go this route.
Now I say this in regards to your setup in particular, because i've read your threads on mr2oc, and gave you some recommendations on your fuel setup. The power you are looking for is going to need in excess of 800cc/mins and larger injectors. That is almost TWICE the size of the stock injectors. Now, think about how much fuel you are going to have to tell the stock ECU to pull away during part throttle, low load situations. Now think about what I said above and removing fuel, essentially screwing with one of the axis of the AFM's signal. Thus the ECU predicts less load based on those altered values, ergo you get timing advance.
Long story short...dreams of lots of power, and piggybacks are a no-no with the mr2's ecu. I'd go with MS over any piggyback...
As I said before, WOT tuning is the easy part. You wont have to mess with the timing curve much, but you'll be depending on boost pressure to lean out your AFR's. Leaners AFR's, less fuel you'll have to remove, less timing advance you get.
My $.02
-Sang
as you probably already saw ive got the speedsource tffr. i plan on going with precision turbo 880cc injectors and im gonna run a walbro 255 in tank pump. some say thier good up to 550hp but i only want about 430 out of it. untill i upgrade to a bigger turbo (currently have a precision t3/t4 60-1) im not gonna do much more to fuel except the -8an fuel lines and the walbro pump.
as far as mr2oc goes. i do appreciate the info you gave me back then. but my turbo want big enough for the power goals i had set so im concentrating on the 430whp range. i dont ever get much help on that site. i mainly use celicatech.com
that is by far the best car site i have ever been on. everyone is willing to help you out even if they dont like you. they could use a guy like you on the boards!
Thread Starter
I FUCK LIKE A PORNSTAR
Joined: Feb 2005
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ats cam gears came in the other day. beautiful work by ats. they are def your go to guys for your high hp needs
i spoke with the guys at rmr and they said my intake will be done in about 2 weeks. i still have to get the turbo rebuilt, injectors, and the shimless bucket conversion before the motor will be complete and ready to start wiring up with megasquirt.
i have a trackday coming up in febuary so im going to hold out on some parts for a little bit. i need to get a new set of racing boots and have extra cash to spend while im up at jennings. other then that project is folding together nicely.
i spoke with the guys at rmr and they said my intake will be done in about 2 weeks. i still have to get the turbo rebuilt, injectors, and the shimless bucket conversion before the motor will be complete and ready to start wiring up with megasquirt.
i have a trackday coming up in febuary so im going to hold out on some parts for a little bit. i need to get a new set of racing boots and have extra cash to spend while im up at jennings. other then that project is folding together nicely.
grease monkey!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,718
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easy fix for trigger filtration is run a edis ignition. the sig goes directly from the vr sensor to the module. so the signal is then "conditioned" by the module so to speak. alot of people are running the 36-1 crank trigger wheel i did a group buy on for the 5m/6m/7m engines and no one is having any issues at all. though most are using the v3 board and ms2 as ill be using. if i was building a full out race car, yeah, id go motec, but for a street car the ms is great if setup right.
I never said it wasn't able to tune part throttle, light load tuning. My implication is that drivability is par at best.
Trigger filtration sucks with MS, drivability is mediocre. I haven't seen first hand their newest stuff, but the early MSII's had poorly written codes. Simple (and essential IMO) aspects like knock control takes a back seats since it's lesser priority processing.
Now, will MS work as a cheap solution to an EMS. Yes, just don't expect it to perform wonders. Even the AEM/Nemesis/PFC are just entry level EMS's, but do much better job than MS in the grand scheme of things.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's only my opinion. Everyone's entitled to one.
If you say so...
But if I had that mentality, I would've recommended Autronic-M400/Tec3 over both AEM and Hydra.
Trigger filtration sucks with MS, drivability is mediocre. I haven't seen first hand their newest stuff, but the early MSII's had poorly written codes. Simple (and essential IMO) aspects like knock control takes a back seats since it's lesser priority processing.
Now, will MS work as a cheap solution to an EMS. Yes, just don't expect it to perform wonders. Even the AEM/Nemesis/PFC are just entry level EMS's, but do much better job than MS in the grand scheme of things.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's only my opinion. Everyone's entitled to one.
If you say so...
But if I had that mentality, I would've recommended Autronic-M400/Tec3 over both AEM and Hydra.
__________________
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2042690/1 black 84 supra, 7mgte, truetrac, bbk, etc.. more in the works
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2117186/1 blue 85 supra, beater
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2965297/1black 86. saved from the crusher! wicked setup on the way.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2235741/1 64 chevy c10, finally getting a new body. woot!
