Let's talk v8
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SRs have thrown rockers, ate rockers, plenty have spun enough bearings to keep clevite and acl busy for quite a while, however plenty run every day, sure you can put an idiot driver behind the wheel of an LS1 car and tear shit up just the same as an SR20, realistically the whole pushrod thing is a bit silly, especially when the engine you are putting down makes much more power, and has a lot better head flow than the engine you are praising.
Specifically on the 1UZ that you want to use as your point of reference i'd like to see where you got those numbers, here are the only numbers i've been able to find for those heads. At 28"
Lift Intake Exhaust
.275 203cfm 125cfm
.511 230cfm 150cfm
Compare those to the stock 317 "truck" heads on my engine
.300 204cfm 146.8cfm
.500 250cfm 174.2cfm
Ouch.
Also consider this, you'll likely be limited to cams smaller than .511 those 1uz heads did that flow at, and typical LS1 "mild" camshafts run in the .550-.590 lift range, heres the head flow for those same "truck heads" in the lift range that will be used.
.550 251.2 181.2
.600 253.0 184.4
Sorry, but if you really want to worry about yourself screwing up and bending pushrods, thats your deal, but dont preach it as a better engine because millions of pushrod engines go down the road, and drag strip every single day, the Cadillac CTS-V put plenty of hurt on other teams with overhead cams enough that they bitched about it.....
I'll take the highly unlikely possibility I might screw up and bend a pushrod all day for an engine that is smaller, easier to work on, and performs far better.
Specifically on the 1UZ that you want to use as your point of reference i'd like to see where you got those numbers, here are the only numbers i've been able to find for those heads. At 28"
Lift Intake Exhaust
.275 203cfm 125cfm
.511 230cfm 150cfm
Compare those to the stock 317 "truck" heads on my engine
.300 204cfm 146.8cfm
.500 250cfm 174.2cfm
Ouch.
Also consider this, you'll likely be limited to cams smaller than .511 those 1uz heads did that flow at, and typical LS1 "mild" camshafts run in the .550-.590 lift range, heres the head flow for those same "truck heads" in the lift range that will be used.
.550 251.2 181.2
.600 253.0 184.4
Sorry, but if you really want to worry about yourself screwing up and bending pushrods, thats your deal, but dont preach it as a better engine because millions of pushrod engines go down the road, and drag strip every single day, the Cadillac CTS-V put plenty of hurt on other teams with overhead cams enough that they bitched about it.....
I'll take the highly unlikely possibility I might screw up and bend a pushrod all day for an engine that is smaller, easier to work on, and performs far better.
So I was off by a little bit, still flows better. Also keep in mind 2UZ VVTI heads have a little better flow then 1UZ heads (not by much however). As far as the lift goes it's about the same actually, just not as much after market support, of course you can always have custom ground cams. How is an LS1 easier to work on? This is'int a drag strip and those cars get rebuilt after almost every race.
The only reason pushrod engines are still around is because their cheaper to manufacture. And your "drag strip" pushrod engines might see 2-3 races and run fantastic but then there getting torn down for a full rebuild, Formula 1 engines run an entire season before being sent back to be rebuilt, all running OHC setups kicking 12k for hours not 6-7 seconds. Pushrod engines have proven what they can do, i understand that, but i still believe OHC designs are far superior. Cobra V8 is 32v OHC and look at what it can do, stout as fuck and accepts a .650+ lift
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V8 porn.
Fucking Aussies.
CNC Billet 1UZ race block (no coolant passages) Cost you $15,000AU
Is in this.
These guys make some pretty insane VH/VK boat engines.
Nizpro Marine - News - VZR-60, Quad Turbocharged V8 Engine, Ski Race Boat Engines, Competition Engines, Force Boats F21, Race Boat Setups
Fucking Aussies.
CNC Billet 1UZ race block (no coolant passages) Cost you $15,000AU
Is in this.
Originally Posted by Donis Bros Rail dragster
6.94sec 1/4 @ 192mph
"cracking blocks at 36psi", now custom 1UZ alum. block
"cracking blocks at 36psi", now custom 1UZ alum. block
Originally Posted by Donis Bros Rail dragster
For drag racing - using this block with modified standard heads is a good alternative to Chev's. While they are adjusting their tappets between races, we are sitting around eating hamburgers!
Nizpro Marine - News - VZR-60, Quad Turbocharged V8 Engine, Ski Race Boat Engines, Competition Engines, Force Boats F21, Race Boat Setups
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Last edited by B18C5-EG; Oct 5, 2009 at 09:18 AM.
Doesnt see what you did
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SR's are also Hydraulic lifters not solid.
So I was off by a little bit, still flows better. Also keep in mind 2UZ VVTI heads have a little better flow then 1UZ heads (not by much however). As far as the lift goes it's about the same actually, just not as much after market support, of course you can always have custom ground cams. How is an LS1 easier to work on? This is'int a drag strip and those cars get rebuilt after almost every race.
The only reason pushrod engines are still around is because their cheaper to manufacture. And your "drag strip" pushrod engines might see 2-3 races and run fantastic but then there getting torn down for a full rebuild, Formula 1 engines run an entire season before being sent back to be rebuilt, all running OHC setups kicking 12k for hours not 6-7 seconds. Pushrod engines have proven what they can do, i understand that, but i still believe OHC designs are far superior. Cobra V8 is 32v OHC and look at what it can do, stout as fuck and accepts a .650+ lift
So I was off by a little bit, still flows better. Also keep in mind 2UZ VVTI heads have a little better flow then 1UZ heads (not by much however). As far as the lift goes it's about the same actually, just not as much after market support, of course you can always have custom ground cams. How is an LS1 easier to work on? This is'int a drag strip and those cars get rebuilt after almost every race.
The only reason pushrod engines are still around is because their cheaper to manufacture. And your "drag strip" pushrod engines might see 2-3 races and run fantastic but then there getting torn down for a full rebuild, Formula 1 engines run an entire season before being sent back to be rebuilt, all running OHC setups kicking 12k for hours not 6-7 seconds. Pushrod engines have proven what they can do, i understand that, but i still believe OHC designs are far superior. Cobra V8 is 32v OHC and look at what it can do, stout as fuck and accepts a .650+ lift
How do you come up with it flowing better that looks
pretty well the same as the 204cfm my heads flow on the intake,
and 25 cfm LESS on the exhaust @ .300 lift, we dont even have to
look at the .500 lift numbers where that head still hasnt hit 225cfm
and my truck heads are at 250cfm, exhaust side being what 135 cfm vs 175
cfm.
The ONLY thing easier on the 1uz to "work on" your example of changing a
camshaft, which realistically, you think that removing four cams, all
of the caps holding them on, reinstalling the replacement cams
caps, timing all of them up, etc, let alone if you needed to change valve
springs is really going to take less time than an LS1 cam swap ?
Other than the cam example, everything else realistically will take less
time on an LS1, intake manifold, injectors, front accessory repairs (dont
know about the 1UZ offhand, but Q45, VG30, SR20 if you havent noticed
all still use individual belts and a bunch of brackets.)
Pushrod motors are still around because they can be just as powerful, and
very often put to shame, overhead cam motors, the LS1 just making a great
example of this.
If you want to see your prized 1UZ head flow really look bad, please feel
free to compare it to a stock L92 (truck) head....
Are you really talking about the cobra engine being impressive ? The one that takes a supercharger to make 390 HP ?
Please post up head flow numbers for that one next, I can see it now, it'll be down 20 cfm intake, and 40 cfm exhaust, and you'll still be saying it flows better.
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R.I.P. Tim 
SR, RB, and LS1 into S13/14 harnesses converted.
SR 13/13- $120, 13/14 or 14/13 $180
RB $200
LS1 $250
full on track cars can take a lot more liberties with shit than a street car. bell bottom kits and crazy wheel fitment look cool sliding on a track, but when i want to drive to taco bus, im going to ruin all of that shit. so it just doesnt work for me. function over fashion.
Originally Posted by osama tim laden
also, im about to blow my moderator status by deleteing all of davids posts
SR, RB, and LS1 into S13/14 harnesses converted.
SR 13/13- $120, 13/14 or 14/13 $180
RB $200
LS1 $250
Registered User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,191
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Damn that shit is fast
V8 porn.
Fucking Aussies.
CNC Billet 1UZ race block (no coolant passages) Cost you $15,000AU
Is in this.
These guys make some pretty insane VH/VK boat engines.
Nizpro Marine - News - VZR-60, Quad Turbocharged V8 Engine, Ski Race Boat Engines, Competition Engines, Force Boats F21, Race Boat Setups
Fucking Aussies.
CNC Billet 1UZ race block (no coolant passages) Cost you $15,000AU
Is in this.
These guys make some pretty insane VH/VK boat engines.
Nizpro Marine - News - VZR-60, Quad Turbocharged V8 Engine, Ski Race Boat Engines, Competition Engines, Force Boats F21, Race Boat Setups
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My shit still slow
618 whp 492 ft/lbs at 22 psi (Low Boost)on pump gas ,
stock block ,more power coming soon ,stay tuned
Tuned by Alpha @ Induction Performance
My shit still slow618 whp 492 ft/lbs at 22 psi (Low Boost)on pump gas ,
stock block ,more power coming soon ,stay tuned
Tuned by Alpha @ Induction Performance
no
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,328
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^ lol at those millennium falcon star cruiser fail offsets... motor looks sick though!
Thread Starter
member
Joined: Aug 2004
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The only pushrod motors that are overhauled that often are straight out nhra top fuel and rail cars.
I'm going to guess that you really don't know a lot about the lsx motors by what you have been saying. If you look into any of the cars in nhra that are lsx powered run entire seasons on one build, some run even longer. I'm not saying that they have to be overhauled either (new season, new motor). Of course I'm talking about motors that make 800+ horsepower for the record.
F1 motors aren't even in the same league. They are a different style motor and are built for longevity not a pass down the strip. They have no stroke and have to rev to reach their powerband.
Last but not least....you have to be kidding if you're honestly saying that the 4.6 is a better motor than the lsx series motors. Any company could have "overbuilt" a motor from a factory. I hate how people always use this as "it's a better motor" argument. The lsx out flows, performs, and revs.
I'm going to guess that you really don't know a lot about the lsx motors by what you have been saying. If you look into any of the cars in nhra that are lsx powered run entire seasons on one build, some run even longer. I'm not saying that they have to be overhauled either (new season, new motor). Of course I'm talking about motors that make 800+ horsepower for the record.
F1 motors aren't even in the same league. They are a different style motor and are built for longevity not a pass down the strip. They have no stroke and have to rev to reach their powerband.
Last but not least....you have to be kidding if you're honestly saying that the 4.6 is a better motor than the lsx series motors. Any company could have "overbuilt" a motor from a factory. I hate how people always use this as "it's a better motor" argument. The lsx out flows, performs, and revs.
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Chris
Chris
Body man extrordinair
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 505
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So I was off by a little bit, still flows better. Also keep in mind 2UZ VVTI heads have a little better flow then 1UZ heads (not by much however). As far as the lift goes it's about the same actually, just not as much after market support, of course you can always have custom ground cams. How is an LS1 easier to work on? This is'int a drag strip and those cars get rebuilt after almost every race.
The only reason pushrod engines are still around is because their cheaper to manufacture. And your "drag strip" pushrod engines might see 2-3 races and run fantastic but then there getting torn down for a full rebuild, Formula 1 engines run an entire season before being sent back to be rebuilt, all running OHC setups kicking 12k for hours not 6-7 seconds. Pushrod engines have proven what they can do, i understand that, but i still believe OHC designs are far superior. Cobra V8 is 32v OHC and look at what it can do, stout as fuck and accepts a .650+ lift
The only reason pushrod engines are still around is because their cheaper to manufacture. And your "drag strip" pushrod engines might see 2-3 races and run fantastic but then there getting torn down for a full rebuild, Formula 1 engines run an entire season before being sent back to be rebuilt, all running OHC setups kicking 12k for hours not 6-7 seconds. Pushrod engines have proven what they can do, i understand that, but i still believe OHC designs are far superior. Cobra V8 is 32v OHC and look at what it can do, stout as fuck and accepts a .650+ lift
and The 4 cam cobra's are nothing special. they need a supercharger to hit 400 HP where as z06 Vette's are at the same power platue naturally asperated. if pushrods were so bad why is one the fastest vehicles in america the ZR1 running pushrods reliably at 600+ hp? And look at c-5 and C-6 Vettes, you can drive around with the a/c blasting and get 24-27 miles to the gallon all day long!
Im not biased towards one manufaturer or another, but realistically the best bang for your buck and longevity without any question when dealing with V-8s is with an LS-1. sorry to rain on your paraid.
Retired
Joined: Jan 2003
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Just dropping in here... F1 engines are rules limited to 18k, a lot faster than 12k. They also have hydrolic valve springs. ...Had to double check whether they had cams or not!
One point: Must remove radiator/condensor to do a cam swap on an LSx. Atleast in an S-chassis. Saw a swap on TV where someone did a cam in something old. Step 1: remove bumper. LOL.
just one more... Try doing any sort of variable timing or lift with a pushrod. I think Dodge did it to the Viper and it was a huge pain in the dick.
Also, someone talk about area under the curve limitations on pushrod motors. I want to say that I've read you have to have really shallow ramp angles to keep the pushrods happy, thus requiring the huge lifts/durations and high flow rates to actually get a decent amount of air into the motor. Might be talking out my ass here, though.
One point: Must remove radiator/condensor to do a cam swap on an LSx. Atleast in an S-chassis. Saw a swap on TV where someone did a cam in something old. Step 1: remove bumper. LOL.
just one more... Try doing any sort of variable timing or lift with a pushrod. I think Dodge did it to the Viper and it was a huge pain in the dick.
Also, someone talk about area under the curve limitations on pushrod motors. I want to say that I've read you have to have really shallow ramp angles to keep the pushrods happy, thus requiring the huge lifts/durations and high flow rates to actually get a decent amount of air into the motor. Might be talking out my ass here, though.
Last edited by Epstein; Oct 6, 2009 at 08:12 AM.
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How do you come up with it flowing better that looks
pretty well the same as the 204cfm my heads flow on the intake,
and 25 cfm LESS on the exhaust @ .300 lift, we dont even have to
look at the .500 lift numbers where that head still hasnt hit 225cfm
and my truck heads are at 250cfm, exhaust side being what 135 cfm vs 175
cfm.
The ONLY thing easier on the 1uz to "work on" your example of changing a
camshaft, which realistically, you think that removing four cams, all
of the caps holding them on, reinstalling the replacement cams
caps, timing all of them up, etc, let alone if you needed to change valve
springs is really going to take less time than an LS1 cam swap ?
Other than the cam example, everything else realistically will take less
time on an LS1, intake manifold, injectors, front accessory repairs (dont
know about the 1UZ offhand, but Q45, VG30, SR20 if you havent noticed
all still use individual belts and a bunch of brackets.)
Pushrod motors are still around because they can be just as powerful, and
very often put to shame, overhead cam motors, the LS1 just making a great
example of this.
If you want to see your prized 1UZ head flow really look bad, please feel
free to compare it to a stock L92 (truck) head....
Are you really talking about the cobra engine being impressive ? The one that takes a supercharger to make 390 HP ?
Please post up head flow numbers for that one next, I can see it now, it'll be down 20 cfm intake, and 40 cfm exhaust, and you'll still be saying it flows better.
pretty well the same as the 204cfm my heads flow on the intake,
and 25 cfm LESS on the exhaust @ .300 lift, we dont even have to
look at the .500 lift numbers where that head still hasnt hit 225cfm
and my truck heads are at 250cfm, exhaust side being what 135 cfm vs 175
cfm.
The ONLY thing easier on the 1uz to "work on" your example of changing a
camshaft, which realistically, you think that removing four cams, all
of the caps holding them on, reinstalling the replacement cams
caps, timing all of them up, etc, let alone if you needed to change valve
springs is really going to take less time than an LS1 cam swap ?
Other than the cam example, everything else realistically will take less
time on an LS1, intake manifold, injectors, front accessory repairs (dont
know about the 1UZ offhand, but Q45, VG30, SR20 if you havent noticed
all still use individual belts and a bunch of brackets.)
Pushrod motors are still around because they can be just as powerful, and
very often put to shame, overhead cam motors, the LS1 just making a great
example of this.
If you want to see your prized 1UZ head flow really look bad, please feel
free to compare it to a stock L92 (truck) head....
Are you really talking about the cobra engine being impressive ? The one that takes a supercharger to make 390 HP ?
Please post up head flow numbers for that one next, I can see it now, it'll be down 20 cfm intake, and 40 cfm exhaust, and you'll still be saying it flows better.
1UZ also has a serpentine belt. OHC engines have also put pushrod engines to shame, swings both ways. It's not a "prized" engine at all its an example. Same with the cobra engine, an example to how much lift a OHC engine can accommodate, and iirc dont cobras have forged internals stock and can hold 800hp? Im no Ford guy buy thats what ive read/heard.
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