Non ethanol gas stations
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doesn't matter to me, as I really don't have a side on it (has pros and cons). Was just curious what you put me down as.
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"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." -Steve McQueen
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From some of my research. after this, I suggest to /thread. Or at least let me have a day or 2 break. I need to refill after dishing out this much.
Unfortunately this article lists fewer positives than we would like - BECAUSE the negatives of E10 currently exceed the benefits for using E10 fuel.
We are all hopeful that with the passage of time and some necessary consumer protection laws, a little regulation, and an increase in consumer knowledge on how to properly manage ethanol-blend fuels, the "Ethanol Scare and Resistance" will become more manageable in the future.
Benefit 1:The most obvious benefit of ethanol-blend fuels is that it decreases our dependence on foreign oil...If we could run our vehicles/engines on 100% ethanol, which has been successful in Brazil - this benefit would be noticeable - Unfortunately since E10 (10% alcohol) results in a 5-7% drop in mpg, our decrease in foreign oil use is minimal.
The increased production of Flex Fuel Vehicles (which use 85% ethanol blend fuel) since 2003, seemed encouraging...
But sadly, due to lack of availability of E85 in most areas, E85 which would have a dramatic effect on our need for foreign supplied petroleum has yet to occur.
Many of the FFV's purchased here in the U.S. are still using only conventional and E10 gas.
On so many levels the good intentions of our government over the past 10 years in promoting ethanol, ignored the negative side effects increased ethanol production would cause. For example, several recent studies reveal that the ethanol plants have reached medically unacceptable levels of pollution (increased lung disease) in the vicinity near these plants. This is one serious obstacle we must overcome before we could encourage increased production/distribution of ethanol.
Of lesser concern but present is our inability to have adequate corn and grains to produce ethanol. Many have noticed this in the increased cost of corn and corn syrup for edible consumption.
Oops - this page is titled "benefits" and I've only listed "1" so far in the previous 4 paragraphs...Back to benefits...
Benefit 2:Ethanol is an anti-freeze - Benefit to consumers in colder climates (ethanol-blend fuels will not freeze when air temperature below freezing.
Benefit 3:Studies on MTBE revealed it can cause cancer and groundwater consumption - Reason MTBE is now banned. A shame we had to replace MTBE with an ingredient that increases pollution and has caused a dramatic increase in incidence of lung disease in vicinity near these plants. Reminds me of when we replaced lead in gas, which caused neurological damage, with MTBE - Seems we're making the same mistake again.
Oops I'm discussing negative again...Back to benefits...
Benefit 4:Ethanol is a cleanser and solvent and keeps your engine "clean" - But this is only a benefit to some people who have used E10 since the engine was "new". For everyone else who switches to E10 in an older and dirty engine, this cleansing effect will cause engine malfunction and damage - Years of accumulated rust, sediment and gunk will be released from your engine and will clog filters and engine parts...
Ooops, sorry...I again turned a possible benefit into a negative...I'll give it another try to think of some benefits of ethanol fuels...
Benefit 5:The farming industry is booming now due to the need for increased production of corn and grains, used to produce ethanol.
Did I mention that farming industry equipment is exempt from using ethanol fuels?
They produce ethanol but refuse to use ethanol in their engines. Doesn't sound right to me...
One reason given for farm equipment E10 government exemption is because farmers correctly believe that ethanol fuel will decrease the useful life of their gas-powered equipment, which they expect to last for 20 or more years -
Too bad your average auto or boat owner wasn't given the same consideration to be able to receive exemption. Boaters are furious because they experience far greater problems with E10 than auto and other engines owners, since boats live in a water environment and ethanol attracts water into the fuel supply.
Benefit 6:Ethanol is safe to the environment. The ethanol used in fuel is the exact same ingredient as alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, whiskey) - Ethanol alone can be consumed and certainly will not pollute our landscape and waterways if accidentally spilled - But since as a fuel it also contains petroleum and numerous other environmentally dangerous chemicals, this benefit would only be relevant if our fuel supply was E100 (100% ethanol / ethyl alcohol).
Other benefits:I've tried really hard to think of a few more benefits of ethanol fuel use - but since they are minimal, compared to the dangers of ethanol, they seem almost not worth mentioning now.
Most of the other benefits involve increased profits and government financial incentives offered to those companies producing and selling ethanol gas.
Ethanol has also proved to be very profitable for the fuel additive industry - those companies selling products with claims that they can "fix" or protect fuel, which contains ethanol. Warning: Many of these new "ethanol fuel fixing" products in this category deceptively make claims that water contaminated gas can be restored - It can't. Also several of these products marketed to consumers for protection against ethanol, actually contain alcohol in them!
It's unfortunate that your average consumer does not receive any of the "benefits" when purchasing and using ethanol gas; Actually using E10 is causing great financial hardship to the public - primarily due to repair costs (engine side effects of ethanol fuel) and due to the expected decrease in the life expectancy of their gas-powered engines.
My opinion:While the EPA and U.S. government intended for increased distribution of ethanol fuels to be advantageous, the results have been very disappointing. Fortunately there are several other safer renewable and reformulated fuels, expected to be introduced in the future, such as biofuels.
While alcohol is basically an environmentally safe compound, it has revealed itself to be unsafe and undesirable as a fuel blend.
I believe it would be better to utilize ethanol for non-fuel products and purposes, (E.G. beverages, medicinal use, cleansers, solvents, drying agents, etc.), and to leave ethanol out of our fuel supply.
Unfortunately this article lists fewer positives than we would like - BECAUSE the negatives of E10 currently exceed the benefits for using E10 fuel.
We are all hopeful that with the passage of time and some necessary consumer protection laws, a little regulation, and an increase in consumer knowledge on how to properly manage ethanol-blend fuels, the "Ethanol Scare and Resistance" will become more manageable in the future.
Benefit 1:The most obvious benefit of ethanol-blend fuels is that it decreases our dependence on foreign oil...If we could run our vehicles/engines on 100% ethanol, which has been successful in Brazil - this benefit would be noticeable - Unfortunately since E10 (10% alcohol) results in a 5-7% drop in mpg, our decrease in foreign oil use is minimal.
The increased production of Flex Fuel Vehicles (which use 85% ethanol blend fuel) since 2003, seemed encouraging...
But sadly, due to lack of availability of E85 in most areas, E85 which would have a dramatic effect on our need for foreign supplied petroleum has yet to occur.
Many of the FFV's purchased here in the U.S. are still using only conventional and E10 gas.
On so many levels the good intentions of our government over the past 10 years in promoting ethanol, ignored the negative side effects increased ethanol production would cause. For example, several recent studies reveal that the ethanol plants have reached medically unacceptable levels of pollution (increased lung disease) in the vicinity near these plants. This is one serious obstacle we must overcome before we could encourage increased production/distribution of ethanol.
Of lesser concern but present is our inability to have adequate corn and grains to produce ethanol. Many have noticed this in the increased cost of corn and corn syrup for edible consumption.
Oops - this page is titled "benefits" and I've only listed "1" so far in the previous 4 paragraphs...Back to benefits...
Benefit 2:Ethanol is an anti-freeze - Benefit to consumers in colder climates (ethanol-blend fuels will not freeze when air temperature below freezing.
Benefit 3:Studies on MTBE revealed it can cause cancer and groundwater consumption - Reason MTBE is now banned. A shame we had to replace MTBE with an ingredient that increases pollution and has caused a dramatic increase in incidence of lung disease in vicinity near these plants. Reminds me of when we replaced lead in gas, which caused neurological damage, with MTBE - Seems we're making the same mistake again.
Oops I'm discussing negative again...Back to benefits...
Benefit 4:Ethanol is a cleanser and solvent and keeps your engine "clean" - But this is only a benefit to some people who have used E10 since the engine was "new". For everyone else who switches to E10 in an older and dirty engine, this cleansing effect will cause engine malfunction and damage - Years of accumulated rust, sediment and gunk will be released from your engine and will clog filters and engine parts...
Ooops, sorry...I again turned a possible benefit into a negative...I'll give it another try to think of some benefits of ethanol fuels...
Benefit 5:The farming industry is booming now due to the need for increased production of corn and grains, used to produce ethanol.
Did I mention that farming industry equipment is exempt from using ethanol fuels?
They produce ethanol but refuse to use ethanol in their engines. Doesn't sound right to me...
One reason given for farm equipment E10 government exemption is because farmers correctly believe that ethanol fuel will decrease the useful life of their gas-powered equipment, which they expect to last for 20 or more years -
Too bad your average auto or boat owner wasn't given the same consideration to be able to receive exemption. Boaters are furious because they experience far greater problems with E10 than auto and other engines owners, since boats live in a water environment and ethanol attracts water into the fuel supply.
Benefit 6:Ethanol is safe to the environment. The ethanol used in fuel is the exact same ingredient as alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, whiskey) - Ethanol alone can be consumed and certainly will not pollute our landscape and waterways if accidentally spilled - But since as a fuel it also contains petroleum and numerous other environmentally dangerous chemicals, this benefit would only be relevant if our fuel supply was E100 (100% ethanol / ethyl alcohol).
Other benefits:I've tried really hard to think of a few more benefits of ethanol fuel use - but since they are minimal, compared to the dangers of ethanol, they seem almost not worth mentioning now.
Most of the other benefits involve increased profits and government financial incentives offered to those companies producing and selling ethanol gas.
Ethanol has also proved to be very profitable for the fuel additive industry - those companies selling products with claims that they can "fix" or protect fuel, which contains ethanol. Warning: Many of these new "ethanol fuel fixing" products in this category deceptively make claims that water contaminated gas can be restored - It can't. Also several of these products marketed to consumers for protection against ethanol, actually contain alcohol in them!
It's unfortunate that your average consumer does not receive any of the "benefits" when purchasing and using ethanol gas; Actually using E10 is causing great financial hardship to the public - primarily due to repair costs (engine side effects of ethanol fuel) and due to the expected decrease in the life expectancy of their gas-powered engines.
My opinion:While the EPA and U.S. government intended for increased distribution of ethanol fuels to be advantageous, the results have been very disappointing. Fortunately there are several other safer renewable and reformulated fuels, expected to be introduced in the future, such as biofuels.
While alcohol is basically an environmentally safe compound, it has revealed itself to be unsafe and undesirable as a fuel blend.
I believe it would be better to utilize ethanol for non-fuel products and purposes, (E.G. beverages, medicinal use, cleansers, solvents, drying agents, etc.), and to leave ethanol out of our fuel supply.
------------------------------------------------------
THANK YOU. That really seems to be what everyone has been saying all along in a nutshell
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Originally Posted by Ayn Rand
"Just as I support my life, neither by robbery nor alms, but by my own effort, so I do not seek to derive my happiness from the injury or the favor of others, but earn it by my own achievement."
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fails.....
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Lucky
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Just to answer the original question because after reading nine pages of arguing I didnt see it. Sunoco. http://www.sunoco.navisite.com/index.html
Now to put in my $.02. I've daily driven my stock 2000 Mazda 626 (i4) for 8 years. I have always calculated my gas mileage after every tank. I have always gotten 25mpg city/30mpg hwy. After E10's introduction I consistently got 21mpg city and 26mpg hwy. After getting annoyed with the decrease in mpg I sought out stations that sell non-blended gas. Some do and don't here and there but the only brand that I have found consistent is Sunoco. Guess what? After switching back to good old 87 octane my mpg went back to normal. To bad my pos 2000 Mazda designed for regular gas consumption performs so poorly with E10, who would have thought? /sarcasm. You see, I don't believe that E10 is the problem. I believe the problem is when there is more then 10%. As someone else pointed out from a test, they saw 40% Eth.?! Holy crap! No wonder my mileage went to shit on the blended tanks I ran. I am not here to argue, you can dispute my findings I don't care. All I know is I calculate my mileage after every tank and these are my personal findings. I could only imagine what would happen should I put a tank of E10 that is actually E40 or higher into my tuboed rotary that is only tuned for plain old 93. Wait you say, no no it is a higher octane rating so it is good. Well, I am not tuned for it, nor am I going to attempt to have my car tuned again for a fuel that proves to not even be consistent. You see, in road racing, or any racing for that matter consistency and reliability are key.
~James
Now to put in my $.02. I've daily driven my stock 2000 Mazda 626 (i4) for 8 years. I have always calculated my gas mileage after every tank. I have always gotten 25mpg city/30mpg hwy. After E10's introduction I consistently got 21mpg city and 26mpg hwy. After getting annoyed with the decrease in mpg I sought out stations that sell non-blended gas. Some do and don't here and there but the only brand that I have found consistent is Sunoco. Guess what? After switching back to good old 87 octane my mpg went back to normal. To bad my pos 2000 Mazda designed for regular gas consumption performs so poorly with E10, who would have thought? /sarcasm. You see, I don't believe that E10 is the problem. I believe the problem is when there is more then 10%. As someone else pointed out from a test, they saw 40% Eth.?! Holy crap! No wonder my mileage went to shit on the blended tanks I ran. I am not here to argue, you can dispute my findings I don't care. All I know is I calculate my mileage after every tank and these are my personal findings. I could only imagine what would happen should I put a tank of E10 that is actually E40 or higher into my tuboed rotary that is only tuned for plain old 93. Wait you say, no no it is a higher octane rating so it is good. Well, I am not tuned for it, nor am I going to attempt to have my car tuned again for a fuel that proves to not even be consistent. You see, in road racing, or any racing for that matter consistency and reliability are key.
~James
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Originally Posted by JustMiata
It's like this: The toadstool juice fires through the unicorn injector into the fairy dust chamber, where the tiny wizard does his secret work...Then a gang of keebler elves get hopped up on the crystalline byproduct of the wizard's tinkering, (they smoke it) and then the elves push the spinning triangle through a series of dimensional portals to a final realm codenamed the "exhaust port..." At least that's my undersanding of rotary sorcery...
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Wait you say, no no it is a higher octane rating so it is good. Well, I am not tuned for it, nor am I going to attempt to have my car tuned again for a fuel that proves to not even be consistent. You see, in road racing, or any racing for that matter consistency and reliability are key.
I too have always recorded my mileage on every tank. I didn't see nearly the drop you did though. I can't think that its the temperature or humidity causing a change as Virginia Beach in the summer is just as bad as tampa on both accounts. So, I'm wondering what controls your state has on the quality/percentage blend you are recieving.
I will also add, we've had lots of customers with turbo rotaries with no issues fuel related. I would state that all cars tuned on regular gas, get a new tune done.
__________________
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." -Steve McQueen
http://www.timeattackforums.com/foru...referrerid=218
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." -Steve McQueen
http://www.timeattackforums.com/foru...referrerid=218
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