What happens when Ford meets Honda??
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Originally posted by "Someone"
What kind of coin do you think these guys with civics put under their hood to go as fast as my NA Cobra? I redline at 6800. Thats in the same neighborhood as most of these little DOHC import 4 cylinders. They do forged internals on them boost the hell of of em and run as well as I can.
What kind of coin do you think these guys with civics put under their hood to go as fast as my NA Cobra? I redline at 6800. Thats in the same neighborhood as most of these little DOHC import 4 cylinders. They do forged internals on them boost the hell of of em and run as well as I can.
Hey buddy i hate to piss on your parade. but i dont know what dohc motors you have been running with. but with my dohc motor with stock internals i can shift at 8200 all day. and my entire car only cost me 2700$. and although i dont think my car would beat yours it would still be close. and my car still is 27000$ less than yours. so maybe all these honda owners dont put as much coin as you think into their cars. maybe just maybe hondas are gas efficient and fast.
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And by fast you mean light weight? Id still rather wreck in a Mustang than a CRX or Civic even...
Youre comparing apples to oranges:
a new car IS GOING TO COST MORE YOU TOOL
Or you can start comparing an old Fox body to your used $800 honda thatll be a level start. Comparing a two? year old SVT cobra to a beater Honda is a joke anyhow. If you were comparing it to an S2000 that would be a decent comparison of performance-engineered vehicles.
Oh and Leo... coilovers dont have to make your ride bad they dont usually unless you go full out race on them and youre looking for a milder autoX setup anyhow... you should be fine with coilovers daily driven. Actually it will make the ride better because the SUSPENSION will react faster and more fluidly to road irregularities by reducing unsprung weight... you like it. ESPECIALLY IF YOU GO BILSTEIN!
What was this post about again?
Youre comparing apples to oranges:
a new car IS GOING TO COST MORE YOU TOOL
Or you can start comparing an old Fox body to your used $800 honda thatll be a level start. Comparing a two? year old SVT cobra to a beater Honda is a joke anyhow. If you were comparing it to an S2000 that would be a decent comparison of performance-engineered vehicles.
Oh and Leo... coilovers dont have to make your ride bad they dont usually unless you go full out race on them and youre looking for a milder autoX setup anyhow... you should be fine with coilovers daily driven. Actually it will make the ride better because the SUSPENSION will react faster and more fluidly to road irregularities by reducing unsprung weight... you like it. ESPECIALLY IF YOU GO BILSTEIN!
What was this post about again?
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(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
-Shawn
(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
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lostandconfused: youre a frigging dumbass -- I drive a DOHC engine. Youre right you can shift at 8200 RPM all day long and Im certain thats not your stock redline. Thats because you have these little penis dick cylinders that have virtually no displacement. Thus your pistons/rods are extremely tiny and have very little mass. Unlike you my engine has displacement (2.8x total volume) and thus requires heavier internals. Frankly I produce a shitload more power than you. So just sit your stupid little ass in your aluminum foil powered beater and STFU. And BTW... I get 17mpg when Im romping the shit out of the loud pedal how many mpg do you get up there in 8700 rpm land????
Shawn: I know that coil overs are THE shit. Better ride andquality for a given wheel rate and all that. I was referring to what a pain in the ass it is to do that drastic of a conversion when you dont have another vehicle to drive and you HAVE to get it done or else. Especially when youre doing it in a 1 car garage... no room to work...
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8200 redline... man that sounds nice... if only the car had torque it would probably be fun to drive. 
4cylford
Due to inflation my penny is now worth two cents... sweeet.
4cylford
Due to inflation my penny is now worth two cents... sweeet.
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8.5:1 pistons... but no power adder... yet.
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do mustangs have independent rear suspension yet? and also i think v8s are a thing of the past. for 20k i know someone building a 2.4 liter crvtec that will take mustangs camaros and corvettes and blow their doors off. (about 24000 total for the entire car) thats 300hp to the wheels in a car weighing in at 1700lbs. granted this one isnt street legal but for the same price someone could easily build a crvtec that will be faster than most v8s. all n/a. basically i think ford/chevy owners are being naive if they think their v8s are at the pinnacle of engineering technology. although i guess it stands to reason that anyone who has just spent 35k on a mustang/camaro or 60k on a corvette is going to act a bit defensive when confronted with this argument. just remember results in the 1/4 are hard to argue with.
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I only spent 13000 on mine and it turns a 14.8 stock.
And Cobras have IRS. But IMO a live axle is the way to go its used often enough in racing.
And actually a V12 is the pinnacle of technology thats why they only put them in $100K+ cars. Id ratehr be 2/3 of the way there than 1/3 (lol)
Im not being defensive or what-not. I just wanted to clear that up. OH and if I had the extra $7000 to match you argument I think I could easily run 11s in a car used primarily for autoX. Nuff said.
And Cobras have IRS. But IMO a live axle is the way to go its used often enough in racing.
And actually a V12 is the pinnacle of technology thats why they only put them in $100K+ cars. Id ratehr be 2/3 of the way there than 1/3 (lol)
Im not being defensive or what-not. I just wanted to clear that up. OH and if I had the extra $7000 to match you argument I think I could easily run 11s in a car used primarily for autoX. Nuff said.
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-Shawn
(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
-Shawn
(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
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chethewitt:
1. Yes COBRAs have IRS.
2. for 24k I could build a car with a V8 that would beat the smack out of your 2.4L VTEC. Old mustang plus a nice 5.2L Modular Longblock from SHM. 450HP/420lb-ft NA.
3. For all your beloved vtecs benefits it has a huge drawback. Pathetic amounts of torque. Its a joke. Everybody always wants to run from a roll... cuz they dont have any power down low and dont want their ass handed to them by a car with a nice smooth pretty power curve.
4. Im not defensive Im right.
1. Yes COBRAs have IRS.
2. for 24k I could build a car with a V8 that would beat the smack out of your 2.4L VTEC. Old mustang plus a nice 5.2L Modular Longblock from SHM. 450HP/420lb-ft NA.
3. For all your beloved vtecs benefits it has a huge drawback. Pathetic amounts of torque. Its a joke. Everybody always wants to run from a roll... cuz they dont have any power down low and dont want their ass handed to them by a car with a nice smooth pretty power curve.
4. Im not defensive Im right.
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Originally posted by "Someone"
Originally posted by chethewitt
do mustangs have independent rear suspension yet? and also i think v8s are a thing of the past. for 20k i know someone building a 2.4 liter crvtec that will take mustangs camaros and corvettes and blow their doors off. (about 24000 total for the entire car) thats 300hp to the wheels in a car weighing in at 1700lbs. granted this one isnt street legal but for the same price someone could easily build a crvtec that will be faster than most v8s. all n/a. basically i think ford/chevy owners are being naive if they think their v8s are at the pinnacle of engineering technology. although i guess it stands to reason that anyone who has just spent 35k on a mustang/camaro or 60k on a corvette is going to act a bit defensive when confronted with this argument. just remember results in the 1/4 are hard to argue with.
Originally posted by chethewitt
do mustangs have independent rear suspension yet? and also i think v8s are a thing of the past. for 20k i know someone building a 2.4 liter crvtec that will take mustangs camaros and corvettes and blow their doors off. (about 24000 total for the entire car) thats 300hp to the wheels in a car weighing in at 1700lbs. granted this one isnt street legal but for the same price someone could easily build a crvtec that will be faster than most v8s. all n/a. basically i think ford/chevy owners are being naive if they think their v8s are at the pinnacle of engineering technology. although i guess it stands to reason that anyone who has just spent 35k on a mustang/camaro or 60k on a corvette is going to act a bit defensive when confronted with this argument. just remember results in the 1/4 are hard to argue with.
$35 K on a Stang ? Where have you been ? The only Stang that costs $35K new will be the new 2003 Cobra that will eat just about every production car you can name ! So that is $20K less than a Vette and the F-Bodies are a thing of the past. Want to name any others that will touch this car for the price ? And some 1700 lbs. shit box doesnt factor in. We are talking about a/c equipped stereo full interior etc..
You can go out the door with a new Stang for $22-24K well equipped. You guys are so defensive when it comes to Mustangs because whether you want to admit it or not you have probably had your ass handed to you by one more than once ! If not I and several other here will be happy to do it !
You 4 banger import guys need to face reality and learn that there is no replacement for displacement ! The sooner you learn that the better. Sure you can build a 4 banger that will run killer times but it will have 25 lbs. of boost running through it and will have constant reliability issues. I have never seen any of the faster 4 bangers go to the track and make run after run without some sort of problem along the way. This is not to say by any means the V8 cars are trouble free. Face it front wheel drive 4 banger cars will never be able to run the times a rear wheel drive V8 can run. Maybe the V8 is old school to some of you but it is highly reliable and very proven.
Anything else you need explained to you ?
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i agree its hard to overcome a lack of displacement. plus torque is always at a premium with smaller engines like the b16 and b18. however i havent seen many mustangs running low 13s or high 12s and when they do its with slicks. power to weight ratio is more important that hp and torque and with 200hp at the wheels in a car weighing 2200lbs it will be just as fast as a car with 300whp in a car weighing 3400lbs. not to mention handling which is another argument completely.
do the math.
in a daily driver crvtec full interior ac etc:
2200/300whp= 7.33:1
to have the same power to weight ratio a mustang would need 485whp. 485whp! n/a i dont know of many mustang cobras putting out half that much power to the wheels.
more reasonable numbers...for 6000 a civic hatchback can easily have 200whp.
2200/200whp= 11:1
3560/300whp= 11.86:1
my point the numbers do not lie. so anyone who can prove otherwise show me some numbers and show me some 1/4 mile times in daily driven mustangs on daily driven tires.
*3560lbs is the weight of a 2001 ford mustang cobra.
*2200lbs is the weight of a 5th generation hatchback.(full interior ac no power locks no power windows etc.)
do the math.
in a daily driver crvtec full interior ac etc:
2200/300whp= 7.33:1
to have the same power to weight ratio a mustang would need 485whp. 485whp! n/a i dont know of many mustang cobras putting out half that much power to the wheels.
more reasonable numbers...for 6000 a civic hatchback can easily have 200whp.
2200/200whp= 11:1
3560/300whp= 11.86:1
my point the numbers do not lie. so anyone who can prove otherwise show me some numbers and show me some 1/4 mile times in daily driven mustangs on daily driven tires.
*3560lbs is the weight of a 2001 ford mustang cobra.
*2200lbs is the weight of a 5th generation hatchback.(full interior ac no power locks no power windows etc.)
