Ricksta

well i have a 93 celica gts......first car i bought on my own....so its important to me...wuts not important to me...is the 5th generation motor thats in it...i want the 3sgte motor so bad...but i dont feel like waitin to save the damn money for it......i have a stage 3 turbo for it...supposively is suppost to give extra 250 horsepower...from wut i heard...but i have no idea bout n e details on it except its rebuilt...i kno i gotta buy an intercooler and blow off valve..im not sure wut else the turbo needs....but should i spend all this money fixin up this motor?!?!? is it worth it?!!? should i wait for the other motor?!?

Slash

Well, I suppose we start with the basics, and go from there.

The engine in your 93 celica is a 5SFE which was standard in the Non-turbo mr2 as well as the camry for certain years. It is a highly reliable torquey motor that gets the job done for daily driving, and in the non-turbo mr2, has proven to be the edge in E-stock SCCA autocross the past couple of years due to greater torque than the miatas also in class.

However, the 5sfe does not have a lot of potential for big power (200+whp) on its own, and is not built or intended to put up with much forced induction or nitrous. This isnt to say that 11's havent been run on a 5sfe, but I only know of 1 man who has done it, and with over $40K invested. Not really cost efficient.

The general rule of thumb is to upgrade to the 3sgte motor from the MR2 Turbo. This motor in gen 2 form (91-95 mr2) can provide no-nonsence 230-250whp with proper moderate mods and hold together as long as you provide enough fuel. The gen 3 version (95-98 J-spec Mr2) is a bit stronger but more expensive, but is good to almost 300whp with as little as an exhaust, downpipe, boost controller, and intake as shown by Mr2Driver on this board. Personally I tend to think the gen 3 is a better buy because you get a newer engine, a better stock turbine with ceramic wheel, larger stock injectors, and better/stronger internals. Most importantly, the gen 3 manifolds are far superior to the gen 2, allowing for much better flow and efficency.

In order to make the car reliable, and not turn any wrenches yourself, I'd expect to spend about $6-8K to get 280ish whp daily driven on 93 octaine. Doing it yourself may cut off about 2000, but judging by your comments on the turbo and questions on parts, you may want to do a larger ammount of research and investigation before attempting such a project with your only / first vehicle.

As far as the turbo and turbo parts go.

Stage 3 really means nothing. Every company brands their turbos differently. For example. Take a T3/T4 - 50, a very common turbo. This turbo is sold as a T3/T4 by Garret, but from Precision its called the SC50, but they are the same. Every company has different names for everything. Stages are marketing terms made to simpifly a path of modification to make it easier for most people to understand, and not buy un-necessary parts (or at least the parts they dont wnt you to buy and blow it up).

Try looking for a serial number on the turbo, take some pictures and post them in the Power Adders Forum and somebody will be able to locate the model and trim of your turbo unit.

The other part most turbo kits are comprised of (but not limited to) are the Intercooler, intercooler piping, manifolds or adapters, air filters, modified ECU's, larger inctors, fuel pumps, and many other items. Turbo Kits are generally sold to reduce the "parts searching" and come up with a generic solution, but always tend to fall behind in performance as the kit does not always match the engine properly. Even on the SAME year, model, and trim car, the same kit may vary up to as much as 30% power output becasue of improper tuning or sizing.

I would highly suggest continuing to ask questions here in this thread, and other experts (such as Sean) of the 3sgte / celica combo can and will speak out. I'm sure others will jump in and assist you as well. Doing stuf to real cars is far more complicated than slapping a kit on, and doing it the RIGHT way may not be cheap, but will tend to save lots of money in the long run.

Hope that answers some of your questions,
Slash
Toyota Tech Moderator

P.S. Welcome to Tampa Racing Toyota Tech!

kbprice

Yea, what he said...

GT4SOM

Ricksta from personal experience don't invest a dime on your stock gts motor. Thats a 5sfe peice of shit. No offense ofcoarse. I use to have 2 of those motors. By the time u turbo that motor you will probably spend about 2k if you do it right. I can offer you everything that you need to swap your car with a 3sgte to make it fast and reliable. 5sfte which is code for your motor turbo could probably only handle about 6 psi before it gets dangerous. stock 3sgte can handle 12psi safely and you will be making about 200hp to the wheels. I got a clip for sale 2300 already shipped here. I know a shop that will swap it in for a reasonable price. Reason why I'm selling my clip instead of swapping is because I need the money for some shit i got into.

GT4SOM

Oh yeah PS Slash mentioned Sean, he's the man when it comes down to the 3s! Check out his website at CentralFLPerform.com and tell him nelson sent ya about my clip. I'm sure you can work something out with him.

Ricksta

thanx for all the advice....i wanted the 3sgte from the get go...i luv my car to death...and ya the motor is realiable...but not fast enough for me....i luv the look of it...im not gonna give up on her tho....lol...i think i remember seein sumwhere on sum site if u order the 3sgte motor from japan it was like 1600 free shipping...which i thought wasnt a bad deal....and ya the swap would cost a pretty penny...but well worth it....right now my car is in the shop...idled so shitty...throttle felt so fucked up...turns out my map sensor was bad...that thing costs 300 bux....no biggy...but im jus going to have him fix it up so it'll run good till i can buy that motor....i jus was having a small bit of hope for the 5s.....thinkin the 5g i woulda saved woulda been handy u kno? i would post a pic of it...but it wont let me sayin its too big er wut not even tho i keep downsizing it ...n e help?

Slash

The reason its now showing is because your using HTML to code it. this board uses PHP.

Just use [*IMG] The Image link [/*IMG] with out the *'s and it will post in your sig, or anywhere else on the board.


Also, with 3sgte's, I wouldnt buy any motor under $2000, you tend to "get what you pay for". By that I mean $1600 will usually mean a motor with some issues. Also it will be a Gen 2 motor and you dont want that either I'm sure someone else on the board here has some up to date Gen 3 prices from companies that warranty their clips to give some degree of safety to the swap.

Slash

https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/s...d.php?t=258634

Here is a 3sgte for sale in our own forum...

Jeff'sSS

I was sort of in the same perdicament as you were about a month ago..

I had a n/a mr2. it was slow, but it handled like a champ and I really wanted more power since it was my daily driver.

I looked into swaps... and the costs, the problems etc..

and to be real honest with you.. unless you are seriously emotinally attached to your car... I would sell it and buy a car that has the motor in that you want.

I went above and beyond what i really wanted to pay.

I paid 2000 for my 92' n/a mr2, which was a steal.... the guy wanted to sell it FAST!!
I sold it for 3000 to a member on this forum, he still got a pretty good deal.

then I found a 93' turbo mr2 on mr2oc.com for 6200, bought it, drove it home.. and i'm lovin it!!! that guy also had to sell quickly, this car i have is easily worth over 7500.

anyway, long story short... if i was to buy a 3sgte motor and swap it.. it would have cost... 3500 for a good clip, 800+ for install and you know theres always going to be small problems....


all i'm saying is do the math before you do a swap. toyotas are more expensive to mod then the honduhs..

Ricksta

well at first i wanted sumthin different....cuz the car pissed me off.......been drivin around an f250 that jus had an engine swap and its got a 460 3 gear in it......and u kno 40 bux gets me 100 miles...lol...so now im like bowing back down to my car cuz i need it....lol....and then i got u all tellin me that its gonna be like 5 g jus for a swap..which isnt bad...because its a great looking car....this one guy told me to put a supra motor in it...i dont remember which one but im guessin its better then the 3s....and im down with my car...but a few more g and i could have a 1000cc r1...lol..no mods and 0 ta 60 in like 3 seconds...lol...who knows...i change my mind bout fifty times a day.....ive got no problem puttin the swap in my car....if i wanted to......it'd be a few months but it'd be done......but the fact that i kno absolutely nothing about cars accept how to race them...is gonna hurt me...lol...i cant even change the oil...lol