I know.. Like I said its POSSIBLE..

However look at all you sacrafice to do that.

The car is no longer comfortable, its DEFINATELY really loud for a b20 that runs 12's.

Plus it stuck with FWD... has no radio no ac...

It just sucks.

Motorwise its possible, hondas CAN go fast. Its not worth all the drawbacks and sacrafices I think personally, and I wouldnt ever have a honda as anything but a daily driver.

Plus not EVERY BPU supra out there runs 12.0. Not every b20 runs 12's either. And while a lot of numbers are "very possible". Drivers often times arent. The numbers are obviously far in the supras favor but.. you get what I mean.

I'd rather have the supra for all aspects over a b20 hatch, but thats not really comparable....

A somewhat closer comparison is a MR2 turbo with mods vs the B20 hatch. Marks mr2 runs 12's for about 2-3 K less than what a B20 would to run 12's. But he still has a car that looks good, handles well, and has comfort options.

Toyota > Honda when it comes to the streetable power department thats for sure, no questions there. I'd rather own the toyota with a turbocharged engine.

But remember this.... BAR honda got 2nd in F1. All that N/A experience clearly shows its working. Toyota scored one eleventh of the points as BAR honda. I dont know what the difference in team budgets is.. But it STILL says something about honda's experience with the Naturally Aspirated engine.

On the street I can never say any Toyota I've ever seen has failed either ME or its owner (if properly taken care of). But I cant say any different for Hondas. I see more Toyotas in the 10's-11s-12s by far.

I just think the applications for honda in racing are extremely limited. But when rules are applied to diferent series of racing Honda does extremely well there(or when intelligent individuals put a LOT of time and reasearch into one, like 60-1ek), but not in "unlimited" style classes. Or simple thursday night drag racing.

 

ok, here it is in a nuttshell

honda's= great reliable semi quick daily drivers, very bland, no soul.

toyota= more soul put into their cars than any other car manufaturer, can you find a honda that has a world wide cult following of a car that was only in production for 3 yearsand is 20 years old? YOU CANT BUY A BETTER CAR THAN A TOYOTA!!

and its not just my opinion, its a fact. unless you've ever taken apart a toyota motor you wouldn't know. they basically race prep mass produced engines. look at the clearences for any toyota motor. look at the metal quality of the peices they use, not even in they're high performance cars, i'm talking bland corolla's and camry's. why the hell do you think they last that long.

 

+1 bill. Toyotas engines are immortal even when abused. You Can't say the same of honda engines.

Sure people can tell me about their "friend" or who ever that has 300,000 miles on his crx. But that's probably under normal driving.

I've also noticed build quality in toyotas is higher. Quality of materials etc.

In hndas defense they make excellent daily drivers. And in certain types of racing they do extrememley well (autocross, F1). You get a good car for the $$$ with honda. just don't beat on it too much. At least parts are cheap.

 

I think thats what you ment to say.. unless you forgot about Ferrari

 

hah, i love toyotas and think they are way better than hondas but i thought that was funny

 

i drive a camry as a daily right now, and the thing is reliable as shit with 160,000 miles on it. but ive also owned a b20 vtec crx, and the car was an absolute blast. you can keep a/c with swapped cars. you guys are comparing cars like the supra with a car like the civic. the two are just not even close in price. any 95 hatch can be found for $3-4k. find me a 95 supra for that. for the $25ish k that you'd spend on a supra, you could have a 9 second civic. even find me an mr2 turbo for that price! hondas arent billed as "performance" cars, except for the s2k and the NSX. it really comes down to what one wants. vtec is an amazing technology, and all of the other manufacturers have gone to valve timing systems. i like both. you really have to applaud their ability to create so much power from so little displacement.

 

I like Honda's. I didn't in the past.

Honda is very similar to Toyota, to me.

4AGE/B16
2ZZGE/B18C5R

I like CRX's, and EG hatchbacks. Small, lightweight.

However, I drove my friends Honda Civic, and didn't like it at all. Everything felt, as Bill said, soul-less. The steering was numb, brakes were numb, gearbox was bland.l didn't like it much.

Hell, even my xA has lots of soul. It's a very "communicating" car. The steering, brakes, gearbox, engine...all of it communicates to me with great feedback. Which is why I love Toyota's.

 

+98237198732.
I feel like my 240 doesnt even know who I am.
My Supra on the other hand................OOHhhhh.
Toyota renders me passionate to their creations. I feel that they breath life into everything that rolls off one of their lines. They are so much more alive. What other car can make you feel like you do when you drive a 86, or the feeling of omnipotentence you get when piloting a Supra? .....................NONE can do that.
Look at formula atlantic. State of the art racing.......with an engine that was designed over 21 years ago. Yes, Im sure their are many revisions and improvement to the original design, but the starting point for this was back in 84. What car could ever contend with the 200gt?(maybe a Hakasuka gtr)
Yea, perhaps we are in a slump right now as for new cars, but keep driving the old ones till the new supra come out
Toyota raped Nissan's wife Suzuki, and Honda was the bastard child result.


ps. I love B series. sorry. (but like 4ag more )

 

please dont take this the wrong way, no flames at all buddy

a 95 hatch is still a hatch. nothing wrong with that, its just not a supra. That 25g price tag come with lots of free pussy, the honda does not. the 25g's spent to make the hatch go 9s will in fact be a waste. First, It is still not a supra. Second, the first time you launch it it will simotainiously rip the front of the unibody off and your radio will fall out of the dash. Hondas=wheel hop. Supras=pussy.
Hondas are one of if not the leader of performance cars in Japan. Type R's are awesome cars, civic, integra, or nsx. They sold every one of them. Its all about honor over there, and honda stands pretty damn tall.


Please someone correct me if I am wrong!!!>> I believe that toyota was the first to use butterflies in the intake (tviss). Not sure about valve timing. Vtec is a lineier equation(follow me).
It will always do the same thing every time, It cannot adapt. VVTLi
is made to make changes when needed, to optimize power at any givin moment, it is made to adapt.
I think that is even more amazing.
Toyota is the best.

 

Like I said.. MR2Drivers car runs low 12's for the same as a B20 in a hatch swap(or less than that).. Its a gen 3 motor with minor boltons (stock intercooler!) in an NA hardtop mr2.. Total cost had to be 6-8K I think for the car, motor, and mods...