well considering that most sr20det's arn't set up for FWD except the GTIR and the bluebird. the SR is aluminum comparedt o the iron block 3S. having delt with both motors i'd have to say that its all up to what you like. me personally i would go 3s because it was basically desighned from toyota's 500 series race motors. if you set them up right they're basically bullit proof. and if you look at the 2jzgte (with which the 3s shares a great deal) you can't kill a toyota.

ok here it is. you make your decision. for each motor to =300WHP

3rd gen 3sgte: basically stock with a good stand alone and some bolt on's with a good intercooler, meant for FWD layout or AWD.

FWD SR20det to get to 300 you'll need: bigger turbo, bigger injectors, bigger maf, rom tune. unless you get a GTIR motor, but even then i don't think you'll hit 300 on a stock set up.

 

All good info. Thing is with the 3s one would be looking at around 3K for a clip before shipping. Add on a stand alone and your looking at 4-5K easily.
On the other hand you have a GTiR clip at a little less than the 3s and a custom rom tune around half of a stand alone. But then you have to figure on getting the right supporting hardware for it.


All in all would pushing for 300whp from a basically stock setup be asking to much for the longevity of the motors and its components? After talking about this i don't think i have the resolve to pay the kind of money it would take to do the setup correctly and not cut corners. I would have to look really hard for someone that just got stuck mid project and needs to sell the stuff cheap if i'm to go ahead with what i had in mind.


So anybody know of a 3rd gen 3s that is going for cheap?

 

don't get a clip, just get a motor and tranny, you don't need a clip cause your going stand alone. or get the clip and sell off the shit you don't need for $$$$$$. call XAT and ask what they can get you a 3rd gen motor and tranny for. you really don't need a clip for a custom FWD install. you can get a 2nd gen 3sgte and just get the 3rd gen injectors and turbo later. come on man, 3s's can be had for pretty cheap.

 

How cheap is cheap?

 

use a megasquirt for standalone, thats about 400 dollars and will get teh job done fine if you buy megasquirt II that has ignition control.. you solder it together and let enthalpy tune it and for around 600 you'll have a full standalone setup.

 

Yes. Use the engine for a rear-drive application. Otherwise, spend it on college.

 

Now what makes you say that?

 

I am assuming this is going into a celica?
I am also assuming you are going to go with a stand alone?
If you go with a Gen 2 engine, you are going to need a standalone to make honest power over 300whp.
If you go with a Gen3 engine, you could do it on the stock ecu, but you are not going to be able to beat on it like a rally car or track car, or you will surely blow it up because of the "agressive maps" which I will call poor tuning.

JDM Engine/trans/ecu and harness Gen 2 3SGTE will run you about $1200 + shipping at the very least. For low mileage, clean engine. 225hp

JDM Engine/trans/ecu and harness Gen 3 3SGTE will run you about $2200 + shipping at the very least. For low mileage, clean engine.

If you can find these engines cheaper, well good for you, but this is the going price. These prices probably do not include the mounts or needed shift linkage or needed throttle cable. So you will either need to buy these new, find them luckily used, or just put your money into a clip. Good thing about a clip, is you can always sell the shit you don't need. Since you are doing FWD an MR2 long block will be the most cost efective, aside from having to get mounts, axles, shift linkage, and throttle cable. Your other option is to get a celica 3SGTE 4WD clip, sell the transmission, and use your current 5SFE transmission. In my opinion, this is going to be the most cost effective way, but what do I know.

To reach 300hp regardless of a stand alone, you will need some basic mods, intake, upgraded intercooler, exhaust, downpipe, and ebc.

On the Gen 3 you will not have to upgrade anything else but the fuel pump. You will probably even make very close to 300whp on stock ecu and turbo. With a stand alone you could easily acheive 300rwhp with just these mods. The only 'reliability' issue will be the turbo, it will wear fast at 16psi daily beatings. I drive mine at 10psi around town to try and extend the life.

On the Gen 2 you will have to upgrade the entire fuel system, rail, injectors, fpr, pump, lines, etc. And you will have to get a stand alone. You could aslo upgrade to a "ct20" from a gen 3 but even with a stand alone you will not make more then 275whp. So to realistically make 300hp you will need to upgrade to a t3/t4 size of a turbo. The is starting to step away from reliable and towards a money pit.

The head design on each of these motors is like chocolate and shit. That is the main difference in the power levels.

My cost for this would go something like this:

Gen 3 3SGTE 4WD clip $3800 shipped.
Stand alone and tuning $1500.
Exhaust $800
Intake custom fabricated $100
downpipe $300
walbro pump $100
front mount intercooler custom fabricated $800
quality bov $250
ebc $300
stage 2 clutch and lightened flywheel $800

All these parts new except the engine of course.

sell awd trans and other misc crap from clip -$1800
sell 5sfe -$250

I mean you can get some of these parts used, and use a isuzu intercooler and yada yada yada but this is how I would do it, if I ever where to do this.

 

Wow Mark, that is one of the best posts ive ever seen you make.. I'm going to incorporate this into a sticky somehow in the FAQ section.

 

Wow, very informative indeed. Although spending in the neighborhood of 9K to get 300whp out of the project before labor and fab work is added seems a bit on the excessive side. And to think i was going to do that twice over. Well, time to move along children. Nothing to see here, the party is over.