ill save you the trouble..

Chris s Car Race Gas Tune Video - YouTube

on a stock plenum i might add...

here is eddie doing 586 rwhp

30R SR Full Race 31 psi pull Video - YouTube

here is a g35 on a rom tune doing close to 700 with more room to go

678 RWHP G35 Sedan - YouTube

here is yaz making 560

red S13 SR.MOV - YouTube

here is cabul making 532

Fever Racing Calbo 240 on Dyno race gas - YouTube

torrential 535

Fever Racing s14.5 on Dyno Race Gas - YouTube


lloyd 460 @ 24 psi

Lloyd's S14. 460rwhp @ 24 psi. Would have tried fo - Car Videos on StreetFire

tims 543

Tim's 525 rwhp XAT 240sx . 1st partial throttle 2n - Car Videos on StreetFire
Punisher crushing the rollers. 30 PSI on oxygenate - Car Videos on StreetFire

11 flat pass... stock cams & plenum / ac / stock motor... rom tune with my launch control
20120113_185224.mp4 video by melbellwood1 - Photobucket

i can go on all day long .. dynoed and tuned more cars than I will ever care to remember... I have close to 10K passes on the dyno.. You have to realize that if this was a unreliable or "unstable" way of tuning, there would be angry people out there. I would not be in business ... We would not have 2600+ ecus out there on the market.

 

Since martin was kind enough to put up those vids, ill find some vids of me beating a lambo muricelago, 800whp supra and a couple very known domestics. Some on race gas, some on 93 pump.

 

is only one way to resolve this , and you guys know how.

 

my poor thread...my poor poor thread.....

p.s
.....i found a tuner...

 

This discussion is about what is better, a rom tune or a standalone tune. NOT, who beat who or who has the most nutswingers. Chris, from a roll i walked you 2 times with a thrown together car built with shit i had laying around. From a dig, you completely demolished me multiple times. I had less into that car than you did in your tranny swap. Say what you may, but facts are facts.

 

This is exactly the point of this thread. I believe that in the hands of someone that is very experienced, a rom tune will do exactly what a standalone can if not better. Pete.. you've played with XDF and know that every parameter under the sun is adjustable through a binary... just like a standalone. Until someone can quantify what it is that a aem does better to make it superior, the point has just not been made. In the end it is as simple as controling how much fuel goes in, at what angle the spark plugs fire and at what intensity... and this is based on tuner ability and not what is doing the task programmed.

I am so confident in what I know and say that I will gladly put up the money to do a controlled test. Same car, same dyno, 1 bar spring... pick your AEM tuner. My mail order tune will do exactly what the AEM acheives after a hands on session. Then I will actually sit down and tweak the mail order tune and top those numbers.

 

Yes every parameter is adjustable. I just know that there is factory code written into the bin that does some very funky things sometimes. Causing cars to to run not as well as a standalone. Also, on a nissan the iat is before the intercooler. How would your rom tune compensate for a heatsoaked intercooler? Can you run your rom tune with a hall effect cam/crank angle sensor for more precise timing control? don't think so. There are upsides to running a standalone, that is why all real deal race teams run speed density and standalone engine management. I only said nasty things about you because in the past, 5-6 years ago you didn't have as much knowlege as you do now. You had gotten me quite heated and I shouldn't have brought up the past.

Just linked this thread to multiple tuning forums. Maybe we will get some insight on what other real tuners have to say about martin's theory about factory re-tuned ecus being just as good as a standalone and MAF sensors being just a precise as a MAP sensor.

pgmfi.org tuning section
aem frorums tuning section
honda-tech tuning section

motec and haltec sites will be added once my username has been approved.

 

I can answer this for you. They are all going to go after the "restrictive" 3" intake theory, which I have no problem with, once this becomes a issue... at roughly 550 rwhp.

I don't want long winded answers, just a empirical list of what a standalone does better than a factory ecu. What kind of parameters are more adjustable on a standalone than a retuned ecu, that can justify the claims in Glenn's signature.

Answers given should be by people well respected and well known as tuners. It would help their case if they averaged more than $100K/yr in tune sales alone as well. Not interested in who's is bigger.. just a very good yardstick as to how well accepted their knowledge is in the field.

I am not picking a fight with you, just trying to get some slander removed from a signature.

 

We all live and learn... this is no exception for me. I am very humble these days.. mainly because the company has become very succesful with a LOT of very hard work over the last 5 or so years.

I will take a 720 tooth optical sensor over a 24 / 36 / 48 tooth magnetic pickup any day of the year... but again that is just me.

As far as IAT.. a MAF sensor does not car about this. I actually elimintate this from the code on the KA-T S14 ecu. The only function of the IAT (line 07C0-07CF) is to turn the AIV or EGR valves on and off during start up. Most turbo Nissans do not even have a IAT.. this is mainly emissions for US cars.

A MAF knows all... and it knows when a intercooler is heat soaked, because the engine starts to consume less volume since the charge is not as dense .. P1V1 = P2V2 . It in turn creates less torque at the same boost level and the air flow is slowed by the mass air meter... making for less load ... fuel and spark is then adjusted for since the crosshairs are at a different load column.

A MAF is a trivial thing, but the theory behind it is decently difficult to fully grasp. Most people get it, but not fully. Again.. I reiterate... everything from a Isuzu Impulse turbo, to a Bugatti Veyron run MAF for the sake of a very precise, and robust air metering system that compensates under all atmospheric conditions.

 

I have just been taught something. I never even thought about the air being less dense and therefore the MAF load reading would then drop with a heatsoaked IC. I'm not trying to say I know more about tuning MAF setups. I'm not trying to argue that a rom tune/MAF being sufficent for a mild 550whp tune. I'm talking about overall tuning abilitys. Nowadays 550whp is nothing. When 6yrs ago 67mm turbos where maxing out at 650-700whp and now 67mm turbo's are running 5" intakes and are making 1100whp. I was always trying to make the point that a rom tune w/ MAF on a 800-900whp single turbo setup isnt optimal. Standalones are also much more user friendly than having to dissasemble a bin and decypher the hex inside to make an xdf file. In the end, I agree, it is all about spraying the correct amount of fuel and having the spark happen at the correct time. Both the factory ecu and a standalone will do this, but I have always seen gains in the midrange and topend when swapping from a MAF to a MAP.

I also, wouldn't try chris again until I have a really good setup. I really had no business calling him out. From a roll I had something for him, but from a dig I had absolutely nothing for him. His car was just waaaay to well setup for a dig. Like I said before, my s13 at that time was just a bunch of shit I had thrown together and made some decent numbers with. The setup really needed a shot to get the T4 I was running to get going before she decided to go at 6k. A 75 shot would've allowed me to have a useable powerband, instead of just making power from 6-8.2k. Being a broke ass felon, its really hard to put a well setup car together. no matter how much talent I have at building engines and tuning cars. The night I ran him I was borrowing money just for gas to get down there. I actually ran outa gas on the ride home and had to call some friends to goto my house and get my gas can for my lawn mower, just to get home.