Power Adders Technical discussion related to Turbos, Superchargers and Nitrous Oxide
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"The unsettled debate nitrous "

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Old 10-22-2003 | 04:50 AM
  #31 (permalink)  
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Sorry Half Fast after reading that again I see where you get the "WTF" from.

Instead of saying it's not reffered to as forced induction, I should have said not commonly reffered to as forced induction.

On the whole, most people don't see it as forced induction simply because it isn't in a lot of cases. Many setups never see liquid N20 entering the combustion chamber. Instead it phase changes into a gaseous state well before it gets there due to long intake runner lengths and other factors. Direct port setups obviously help alleviate that problem and is another reason why they make more power.

Another way to look at this is this... You could conceivably set up a forced induction system to techinically not be forced induction. You could cause the waste gate to open at 0 psi of pressure. You would still be pumping air into the engine, but you would not be generating positive manifold pressure. I would not classify this setup as forced induction either.... It's also not a common way to do things.

So the entire point is... the common deciding factor between forced and naturually aspirated is the generation of positive manfiold pressure above atmospheric. The uncommon deciding factor between forced and naturually aspirated would be the generation of additional combustion chamber pressure above wich would normally be generated before the ignition event.

Now maybe some one can provide some evidence to the contrary here but this is my understanding of how all this works.
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Old 10-22-2003 | 07:33 AM
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Cronic,

The definition I posted for injection didn't include that sub definition you have there.

You have a point with that and I don't have anything I can add other than I agree it is in fact, quite misleading.

I think if you think about the context of how you are injecting the nitrous it doesn't quite fit that alternate definition. However, it's quite easy to read it many different ways.
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Old 10-22-2003 | 05:41 PM
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Well, I'm not saying what I think it is but all I know is that ZEX, and many other performance manufacts. say that it is a form of forced induction. ZEX even says it right on the package for their cold spark plugs.


So, no offense but I think I'll go by what some major manufacturers say than just some guys on a forum arguing over their opinion of a definition!
Old 10-22-2003 | 06:22 PM
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Hey VR,

I don't think we are arguing here... I feel it's a debate at this point, which is always good as both sides learn usually.

If you read the posts carefully you will see that we agree to a point that N20 can be very loosely defined as forced induction under specific situations. It's just not commonly referred to as forced induction in most situations.

You are entitled to believe whoever you wish that's perfectly fine. You don't know me from adam (I don't know how you may/may not know the others) and would only suggest you listen to what I (or anyone else) has to say about anything and then research for yourself some more. Only then will you be able to decide for yourself what's right and what isn't.

Shall we say this horse is dead then?
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Old 10-22-2003 | 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by HybridSS
Take a close look at my car and my nozzles. I spray 300 shot into the intake...but its NOT in the direction of intake flow...its at a 90 degree angle to flow. And again the nozzles are about two inches from the actual intake slot. If there was any positive pressure it would spill out the intake inlet. So this shoots his arguement down even further.
So you are spinning the flow down your intake instead of pushing it.

Unless you think there is some validity to that tornado scam I don't know why you would deliberately aim your nozzle the wrong way. Hell, if you put it in backwards it isn't going to keep the engine from running but you will be reducing the VE of the motor. I sure hope you arn't doing this deliberately since its about as wise as rigging your throttle so it doesn't open all the way.

For all the disbelievers I will repeat my argument that only needs two words, JET PUMP.

The jet pump effect is real no matter how much some people who are dead wrong try to deny it.
Old 10-22-2003 | 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by 400HP930
So you are spinning the flow down your intake instead of pushing it.

Unless you think there is some validity to that tornado scam I don't know why you would deliberately aim your nozzle the wrong way. Hell, if you put it in backwards it isn't going to keep the engine from running but you will be reducing the VE of the motor. I sure hope you arn't doing this deliberately since its about as wise as rigging your throttle so it doesn't open all the way.
Well considering that is exactly how NOS designed it Ill stick with that...thanks though. You see, the close proximity to the MAF makes it unwise to point the nozzles directly into the airstream. That would spray the high pressure nitrous directly at the MAF. Incorrect MAF readings will result. So they moved the nozzles back about ten inches on either side of the airbox and pointed them at the center. This way...by the time it passes the MAF the pressures have just about equalizes and the "fog" is well mixed with ambient air. And guess what...its still a vacum. Nitrous is not Forced induction

Originally posted by 400HP930
For all the disbelievers I will repeat my argument that only needs two words, JET PUMP.

The jet pump effect is real no matter how much some people who are dead wrong try to deny it.
Of course the jet pump effect is a real thing. Too bad its effect on intake pressure is negligible. And guess what ..its still a vacum Face it...your dead wrong, nitrous is not forced induction.
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Last edited by HybridSS; 10-22-2003 at 09:53 PM.
Old 10-22-2003 | 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Viagra_Racing
Well, I'm not saying what I think it is but all I know is that ZEX, and many other performance manufacts. say that it is a form of forced induction. ZEX even says it right on the package for their cold spark plugs.


Show me where ZEX call there nitrous kits Forced Induction. I dont see it. The do seel plugs that they claim will work well with turbos, blowers, and nitrous.Look on NOs and NX websites as well. Youll never see it refered to as Forced induction.


Really...we could dispute the finer points of how nitrous affects intake pressures but i think we all agree the engine still operates in vacum and basically equal to NA vacum.

I think the major issue is with the term "Forced Induction" and what it means. Does it mean the same thing as "boosted"?
"running boost" etc.
I believe all those terms are meant to describe an engine being run on positive manifold pressure to raise the HP. And of course...nitrous does not create a positive (meaning above ambient) pressure in the intake manifold.
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Old 10-23-2003 | 11:16 AM
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I could tell you where it's at all day and I'm sure unless it's in front of your face you'll tell my I'm wrong. Just have this feeling. So just in case in hunch is incorrect it's on the back of the pacakage that the spark plugs come in. At least for the package the DSM plugs came in (yes I know they're all the same plugs it just matters how many you buy. So don't even think you can nail me on calling them vehicle specific).



So while we're debating over stupid shit.....

Some people call it a blow off valve, some call it a pop off valve. It's all the same thing but let's "debate" over what everyone calls it too! Begin:



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