"The unsettled debate nitrous "
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Originally posted by Enthalpy
wrong, you are not forcing more air in. you are changing the chemical makeup of the air entering the engine. once the n20 leaves the orifice of the nozzle it has to be at atmosheric pressure...physics dictates this.
OKay, my bad, your forcing more oxygen into the engine. If not, please explain how Im wrong.
furthermore, if n20 really was forced induction (i.e. forcing more air into the engine) then why dont people just inject compressed air into the manifold through a sprayer like a Nitrous nozzle? do you think you would get any net gain that wasnt from a cooler intake charge??
Because things would go boom, nitrous is safer then direct o2 injection.
and lastly it is not possible for nitrous to force more "air" into the engine as you stated Cronic. if any thing it allows less "air" into the engine. n20 makes more power becuse it allows more OXYGEN into the combustion chamber, by displacing "air". air is the common term for the mixture of gasses that make up the earth's atmosphere. as stated above 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% trace elements.
Symantecs... my fault for not using the proper terms. Nitrous forces more oxygen into the cylinders.
Scott
wrong, you are not forcing more air in. you are changing the chemical makeup of the air entering the engine. once the n20 leaves the orifice of the nozzle it has to be at atmosheric pressure...physics dictates this.
OKay, my bad, your forcing more oxygen into the engine. If not, please explain how Im wrong.
furthermore, if n20 really was forced induction (i.e. forcing more air into the engine) then why dont people just inject compressed air into the manifold through a sprayer like a Nitrous nozzle? do you think you would get any net gain that wasnt from a cooler intake charge??
Because things would go boom, nitrous is safer then direct o2 injection.
and lastly it is not possible for nitrous to force more "air" into the engine as you stated Cronic. if any thing it allows less "air" into the engine. n20 makes more power becuse it allows more OXYGEN into the combustion chamber, by displacing "air". air is the common term for the mixture of gasses that make up the earth's atmosphere. as stated above 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% trace elements.
Symantecs... my fault for not using the proper terms. Nitrous forces more oxygen into the cylinders.
Scott
I have fuzzy eyebrows
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Nitrous Oxide (N2O) does not add pressure to the intake charge. Yes it is stored in a pressurized container as a liquid. When introduced to the incoming air the pressure is equalized and the N2O boils off to it's gaseous state. This has the benefit of absorbing heat energy from the intake charge and providing a cooling and drying effect. The air in the intake charge along with the N2O which is now a gas at atmospheric pressure is then drawn into the cylinder with added fuel, not forced in
I really love the concise description Richard has made here. Especially the portion where it sais the high pressure gas exiting the nozzle is equalized with the negative vacum pressure. This happens VERY rapidly. The high pressure nitrous stream is very small in comparison the the much larger volume of ambient air already in vacum. So when the two pressures equalize...the total of the two is still in vacum. Even more so once youve been spraying a few microseconds and the VE picks up a bit creating more vacum as the HP rises.
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"Forced Induction" is the process of using a mechanical system to "force" more air into an engine. This includes Superchargers, Turbochargers, Nitrious systems, and other mechanical systems, but not hood scoops which just direct outside air into the engine. Both Superchargers and Turbos use a compressor to "force" air into the engine, making it more dense (i.e. more oxygen). When a proportionately larger amount of fuel is added to the denser air charge, the mixture creates a much larger explosion and thus more power from the engine. Nitrous Oxide Systems ("NOS") works by directly injecting Nitrous Oxide (NO2) into the engine. The higher concentration of oxygen found in NO2 (compared to air) and more fuel leads to the same effect as Superchargers and Turbos. Although the basic concepts are similar, each differs in their design and execution.
Found this searching google.com
Source: http://www.musclecarclub.com/library...nduction.shtml
Unfortunatly dictionary doesn't have the term.
Found this searching google.com
Source: http://www.musclecarclub.com/library...nduction.shtml
Unfortunatly dictionary doesn't have the term.
LT1's are slow!
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I wouldn't give too much credit to anyone that doesn't know that the nitrous oxide molecule is N2O, instead of NO2 which is nitrogen dioxide. 
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Richard
1996 Corvette CE coupe LT1/A4
Mostly stock
1998 Camaro
Z28 badges and dual exhaust tips
Richard
1996 Corvette CE coupe LT1/A4
Mostly stock
1998 Camaro
Z28 badges and dual exhaust tips
Last edited by Half Fast; 10-21-2003 at 09:54 AM.
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I hate all of you for making me proove myself wrong.
I hate that.
Forced: 2 : done or produced with effort, exertion, or pressure <a forced laugh>
Induction: d : the inspiration of the fuel-air charge from the carburetor into the combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine
Please see Miriam Webster, or www.m-w.com for full definitions. I provided what I believe are the most relavent.
I hate that.
Forced: 2 : done or produced with effort, exertion, or pressure <a forced laugh>
Induction: d : the inspiration of the fuel-air charge from the carburetor into the combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine
Please see Miriam Webster, or www.m-w.com for full definitions. I provided what I believe are the most relavent.
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Pro 5oh
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The nitrous has 2 solenoids, one is fuel, the other is for N2O. When you hit the nitrous button, it opens the solenoid alowing the fuel to pass through one, and the N20 to pass through the other, this mixture is then PULLED into the combustion chamber.
I have fuzzy eyebrows
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NMRA rules
Browse this link for the NMRAs rules on Super Street Outlaw. It has lots of refernces concerning "power adders" as well as "Forced Induction". Check the definition of power adder.
Check the descriptions for boost controller and intercoolers in refernce to Turbos and SC. They are usually refered to as forced induction. No where in there will you find Forced Induction refered towards Nitrous.
Browse this link for the NMRAs rules on Super Street Outlaw. It has lots of refernces concerning "power adders" as well as "Forced Induction". Check the definition of power adder.
Check the descriptions for boost controller and intercoolers in refernce to Turbos and SC. They are usually refered to as forced induction. No where in there will you find Forced Induction refered towards Nitrous.
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if it's cheap & reliable, it ain't fast, if it's fast & cheap, it ain't reliable, if it's fast & reliable, it ain't cheap
if it's cheap & reliable, it ain't fast, if it's fast & cheap, it ain't reliable, if it's fast & reliable, it ain't cheap
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lol when I post dictionary references I get bagged on....guess I need more posts under my belt before I can get away with it.
Anyway,
I think my original explanation of why Nitrous Injection (key word there..."injection") is not Forced Induction was enough for most people.
It is definitely true that the expansion of "liquid" N20 will raise the combustion chamber. That process is not however, referred to as forced induction and you must have "liquid" N20 make it all the way into the combustion chamber before that will happen. Gaseous N20 won't raise chamber pressures before the ignition event.
Personally, in the end it just doesn't matter. Use what fits your setup best. N20 is superior in virtually all aspects for power production. It's draw backs are obviously refills and safety. In a perfect world where the bottle never went dry and fuel solenoid always worked (talk about no fun when that doesn't open right..) N20 would be the hands down winner in the power adder camp.
One of the coolest things I saw years ago was a filter that allowed more Oxygen molecules through than Nitrogen. It raised the % of Oxygen present in the air stream after the filter by 5-12%. Of course the filter was the size of a locomotive at the time.....kind of hard to slap that on the end of your FIPK...
Anyway,
I think my original explanation of why Nitrous Injection (key word there..."injection") is not Forced Induction was enough for most people.
It is definitely true that the expansion of "liquid" N20 will raise the combustion chamber. That process is not however, referred to as forced induction and you must have "liquid" N20 make it all the way into the combustion chamber before that will happen. Gaseous N20 won't raise chamber pressures before the ignition event.
Personally, in the end it just doesn't matter. Use what fits your setup best. N20 is superior in virtually all aspects for power production. It's draw backs are obviously refills and safety. In a perfect world where the bottle never went dry and fuel solenoid always worked (talk about no fun when that doesn't open right..) N20 would be the hands down winner in the power adder camp.
One of the coolest things I saw years ago was a filter that allowed more Oxygen molecules through than Nitrogen. It raised the % of Oxygen present in the air stream after the filter by 5-12%. Of course the filter was the size of a locomotive at the time.....kind of hard to slap that on the end of your FIPK...
LT1's are slow!
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Originally posted by 1BFC
It is definitely true that the expansion of "liquid" N20 will raise the combustion chamber. That process is not however, referred to as forced induction and you must have "liquid" N20 make it all the way into the combustion chamber before that will happen. Gaseous N20 won't raise chamber pressures before the ignition event.
It is definitely true that the expansion of "liquid" N20 will raise the combustion chamber. That process is not however, referred to as forced induction and you must have "liquid" N20 make it all the way into the combustion chamber before that will happen. Gaseous N20 won't raise chamber pressures before the ignition event.
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Richard
1996 Corvette CE coupe LT1/A4
Mostly stock
1998 Camaro
Z28 badges and dual exhaust tips
Richard
1996 Corvette CE coupe LT1/A4
Mostly stock
1998 Camaro
Z28 badges and dual exhaust tips
