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Wide tires, lateral grip, and you

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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by paul kersey
are those the same steam rollers that are on those cast piece of shit wheels you posted before?

let me ask some background here.

how old are you ?
do you have any track driving experience whatsoever?
do you really honestly think youre smarter than everyone?
25
Road racing? Zero
Honestly, it really depends what the subject matter is. I will say that I have been a computer programmer for 11 years (that is currently my profession as well). I am all about logic and numbers, the weak point is when you introduce human logic (oxymoron) into the equation. Those same principals can be applied to nearly every aspect of your life. All people are dumb, until proven otherwise.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:42 PM
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as much as these articles hold merit, anything more than 275 on the rear of an s14 isn't doing much. the guys running 315s are either parking hard, or running race compound with 265s up front, doing autocross.

i still think a balanced 240 doesn't even run stagger. i'm over staggered tires honestly. esp when people beef out the sway bars, these things just plow.

edit - with stagger, it seems you cant win. too skinny and it understeers and skids into the barrier. too much front tire, and it will plow. the steering system will hate it, and if the air pressure isn't right it won't react like you want. plus too many S chassis guys just throw on huuuuuuge sway bars and call it a day and that ends up hurting them (i forget the technical reasoning for that).

there is a huuuuuge old thread on freshalloy about this very topic. i may try to dig it up because it addressed some really good points about "what is too wide?", specific to the S chassis.

Last edited by dan; Aug 5, 2008 at 07:44 PM.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by vertigo
25
Road racing? Zero
Honestly, it really depends what the subject matter is. I will say that I have been a computer programmer for 11 years (that is currently my profession as well). I am all about logic and numbers, the weak point is when you introduce human logic (oxymoron) into the equation. Those same principals can be applied to nearly every aspect of your life. All people are dumb, until proven otherwise.
It seems you lack first hand experience and proves that you are just throwing out "facts" that you have read and in theory are true but dont take into account most circumstances. There is a such a thing as too much.

And there is still no reason to run this crap on a Street car. None what so ever. If you were going to take it to the track often and sometimes on the street than sure.
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Originally Posted by Epstein
Either way you're required to do it Tampa style. $1500 kit still gets $4.99 rattle can paint job. Bonus points if you use 2 different colors of gray.

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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:44 PM
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by vertigo
25
Road racing? Zero
Honestly, it really depends what the subject matter is. I will say that I have been a computer programmer for 11 years (that is currently my profession as well). I am all about logic and numbers, the weak point is when you introduce human logic (oxymoron) into the equation. Those same principals can be applied to nearly every aspect of your life. All people are dumb, until proven otherwise.
fair enough answer.
but this part.
Originally Posted by vertigo
Road racing? Zero
negates pretty much anything you've posted in my eyes.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:45 PM
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by paul kersey
also, just to put it out there, a second gen miata weighs 2200 pounds, and in scc they pulled a g, on 205-45-16 dunlop sp9000's, or michelin mxx3 ( i dont 100% recall. either way, street tires)

is that closer to proving me right?
or at least you less right?
You cant realistically compare 2 totally different chassis' / setup. Now if that miata had thrown on larger tires and repeated the test, then the results would be conclusive.

SCC pulled 0.97G on a s13 with 235's. If the goal was to see who could pull a G with the smallest amount of rubber, you would win. However the car doesn't explode when you pull more than a G, just maybe your bladder
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dan
as much as these articles hold merit, anything more than 275 on the rear of an s14 isn't doing much. the guys running 315s are either parking hard, or running race compound with 265s up front, doing autocross.

i still think a balanced 240 doesn't even run stagger. i'm over staggered tires honestly. esp when people beef out the sway bars, these things just plow.

edit - with stagger, it seems you cant win. too skinny and it understeers and skids into the barrier. too much front tire, and it will plow. the steering system will hate it, and if the air pressure isn't right it won't react like you want. plus too many S chassis guys just throw on huuuuuuge sway bars and call it a day and that ends up hurting them (i forget the technical reasoning for that).

there is a huuuuuge old thread on freshalloy about this very topic. i may try to dig it up because it addressed some really good points about "what is too wide?", specific to the S chassis.
I agree, thats why I originally wanted to go with 275's all around. However if I want my car back in any reasonable amount of time, I may have to go with some wheel widths / offsets which are less than ideal to me.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:50 PM
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why shouldnt you compare the two?
if everything is adjustable except track and wheelbase, there is no reason you cant make any car handle any way you want it to.

plus like you just said.
"scc pulled .97g on an s13 with 235's"

so with say a 255, which is a reasonable size, and can be had in decently sticky compounds, over a g is certainly possible.
and if you think there is anything where pulling one g isnt enough, then youre kidding yourself in my opinion.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by longfellow2
It seems you lack first hand experience and proves that you are just throwing out "facts" that you have read and in theory are true but dont take into account most circumstances. There is a such a thing as too much.

And there is still no reason to run this crap on a Street car. None what so ever. If you were going to take it to the track often and sometimes on the street than sure.
You make it sound like Im running around saying random shit? I actually have my car at a body shop, waiting for the wheels / tires. I put my money where my mouth is. I tell you what, lets measure how many G's I can pull, then swap your wheels / tires onto my car and see how much it changes? I have a wii remote and a laptop :]
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:53 PM
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oh. i just remembered.

dc is building your car for you.
yeah, this thing will handle awesomely parked at hot import nights with the rest of their cars.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 07:54 PM
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And since you wont be taking it to the track much we can test out those G's on the interstate on ramp. You go on and on about wanting superior grip but you said it will hardly be on a track so what is the point?

So yea sure, then you can test both with my car which is more than likely set up completly differnt and see how it works. You have an amazing point.

I thought you said you were building your car? not throwing money at it. I didnt know DC was doing it for you.
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Originally Posted by Epstein
Either way you're required to do it Tampa style. $1500 kit still gets $4.99 rattle can paint job. Bonus points if you use 2 different colors of gray.

Last edited by longfellow2; Aug 5, 2008 at 07:56 PM.
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