Before and After...a Refresh and Update Project on a '93 s13 Hatch
Because race car…
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Just picked up a side mount intercooler last night. I know these things are small but its a starting point. The superchager is good for about 10lbs of boost, so hopefully that wont be way too much for the side mount to handle. I'm going to ask in the lounge to see if I can get some input on this question.
-royce
-royce
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Time for a change...
Fellas,
Not sure how many of you still check into this tread, but I want somefeed back from those of you that do. I'm about to pick up a shell to swap my "guts" of this '93 hatch into. The old gurl took a beating when I ran into that pole and with 237,xxx miles on the chassis it now feels sprung or loose all the time now. That taut 240sx feel is gone...not that the 240sx is super stiff, but it now feels like mush and starts rattling my teeth at anything above 45mph. All that and it doesnt eat tires, go figure. Either way...i've decided that it will be smarter to move on to a different chassis than to invest more cash into the high mileage one that may never be right again.
#1: Should I start a new thread or continue on in this one?
#2: Options for a shell to swap into. I have bites on a SE HICAS hatch, a base manual Hatch, or a vert (all '93 models)...all under $750.
I love it when you guys post in here...so please do. I'll drop pix into this thread or a new of the shell i pick up depending on what you all think would be best.
Thanks,
-Royce
Not sure how many of you still check into this tread, but I want somefeed back from those of you that do. I'm about to pick up a shell to swap my "guts" of this '93 hatch into. The old gurl took a beating when I ran into that pole and with 237,xxx miles on the chassis it now feels sprung or loose all the time now. That taut 240sx feel is gone...not that the 240sx is super stiff, but it now feels like mush and starts rattling my teeth at anything above 45mph. All that and it doesnt eat tires, go figure. Either way...i've decided that it will be smarter to move on to a different chassis than to invest more cash into the high mileage one that may never be right again.
#1: Should I start a new thread or continue on in this one?
#2: Options for a shell to swap into. I have bites on a SE HICAS hatch, a base manual Hatch, or a vert (all '93 models)...all under $750.
I love it when you guys post in here...so please do. I'll drop pix into this thread or a new of the shell i pick up depending on what you all think would be best.
Thanks,
-Royce
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I would continue with this thread, but I'm weird like that.
a new shell is going to be the way to go, but you have to accept the fact that even though your old car had a bajillion miles on it, it had a lot of car and work done to it to get it to the point where you remember it. Meaning, the new shell isn't going to feel the same until you put that same work and effort and care into it.
Actually, to be totally honest, it won't ever feel the same.
I've been there, done that too many times. You'll never get that original feeling back. Even if everything was built exactly the same, you're missing the "journey" you had to take to get the old car to that point and therefore, you are missing the emotional bond which is what gave that car "that feeling"
And that is why so many people will move on to a totally different car, or even give up building cars all together after they wreck their pride and joy. Even though so many of them like to boast the whole "its just a car" attitude about it, it is just their cover up for the emotional hurt, even if it is just subconscious. You can't be passionate about something, then turn around it be "just a car"
With all of that said, from a logical, and financial standpoint, a new shell is the only option.
If I were in your shoes, I would plan on the new shell needing a TON of work before you try to compare it back to the old car. Again, if it was my project, I would strip it all the way down and build back up. Strip it down, repair any rust/metal damage. Do any chassis upgrades you want/can/afford at this point. Some welding, bracing, and body fill goes a really long way. I would be really crazy about it and go over everything with a fine tooth comb. I would inspect the body harness and dash harness to see if anything has been tampered with/damaged. If it has, and it isn't going to be a easy fix, I would swap the harnesses. I would actually really consider swapping the harnesses anyway considering you "know" your old harness. (while everything is stripped out, this would be the perfect time for paint should time/budget allow) From there, it basically becomes a matter of "pick the best" You know the condition of your previous sub frame and suspension. But that doesn't mean you don't get lucky and get a new shell with better parts on it. Point being, don't just assume everything needs swapped. Don't over look anything, take your time and really inspect every little thing as you go. This is not the time to cut corners. It might save some time now, but it will effect the outcome and possibly cost you more in the long run.
Just be meticulous in the swap. I know it sounds "easy" Just unbolt everything, swap it out and boom you're done and ready for fun. It can be done that way, but then you'll be chasing all of the details that make all of the difference once everything is put together.
I'd say this is one of the worst kinds of projects to undertake when you are on a time constraint. IF you are on a time constraint and it has to be done in a certain a mount of time, then plan plan plan a head. Try to schedule and budget your time so you keep on track. The key to doing that, is to take some time and inspect everything the best you can, so you have as much information about what you are about to tackle before putting a wrench to it.
With all of that said,
SE hicas hatch - the hicas rack is neat cause you get more angle out of it. But, the rest of the hicus system can be a real pain and is usually just removed. The fact that it is SE means it should have all of the power options. To me, for a daily driver, that's a plus. But for a project like this, the condition needs to be taken into account. More power options means more wires that can be messed with. Did your old car have all of the power options? Are you prepared to swap all of the harnesses required to make sure the end result is flawless (or at least as flawless as possible) Is it auto or manual? Was it previously swapped? are you going to do the 5 speed swap? Are all of the little SE extras worth it when you take into account the extra work it may need?
Base hatch - I have mixed feelings about base models. I tend to say that the extras make for a more enjoyable daily driver, but my favorite 240 I ever owned was a base model and I think that's part of why I loved it so much. Call me crazy, but I missed the crank windows when I didn't have them any more. BUT, if I kept that car long enough, I would have wished I had the power options because of all of the cool stuff you can do with security systems. To me, the base model would only be an option if it was in amazing condition and required the absolute least amount of work to complete.
The Vert. - Verts are really neat because of the way the chassis was reinforced. They are supposed to actually be stiffer than their coupe counter parts. So from a performance standpoint, that's really cool. It is something that has always attracted me to the verts. The thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger.. the fact that it is convertible. You run the risk that the top has had problems before and leaked and soaked the interior. And you run the risk of it happening to you in the future. The convertible top is awesome, and all that, but it comes with a lot more work. Is all of that extra work worth it? That's debatable. My rule of thumb, is to assume that it is going to need work. Perhaps not right this second, but I would plan on to worst case, that it goes to hell as soon as you get it home. If you are on a tight time frame to begin with, then a convertible might be biting off more than you can chew, which is how I have always looked at it. I haven't ever had the time, nor the budget to allow me to buy a car I didn't "need" to fix it and build it up while I drove my other car, then did whatever swapping I needed in a reasonable time frame and get back on the road.
IF you do have that kind of a budget to work with, then most of that all becomes none issues.
If you can afford to buy the vert, get it home, tear it down, clean it up, fix everything, and make sure the chassis and the top are in tip top shape before pulling your car apart, then I'd do it. (if you really like the idea of a convertible)
(tid bit of caution, the convertible takes up a lot of space inside the car)
If you have a really awesome Budget to work with, then you could afford to buy whatever bits and pieces you need to get the suspension in tip top shape, get the chassis cleaned up, get the paint all sorted out, and get the top in great shape that way you have a rolling chassis that is in awesome shape, then all you need to do is swap the drive train.
It is either going to cost time, or it is going to cost money.
ok, enough of my rambling on and on.
a new shell is going to be the way to go, but you have to accept the fact that even though your old car had a bajillion miles on it, it had a lot of car and work done to it to get it to the point where you remember it. Meaning, the new shell isn't going to feel the same until you put that same work and effort and care into it.
Actually, to be totally honest, it won't ever feel the same.
I've been there, done that too many times. You'll never get that original feeling back. Even if everything was built exactly the same, you're missing the "journey" you had to take to get the old car to that point and therefore, you are missing the emotional bond which is what gave that car "that feeling"
And that is why so many people will move on to a totally different car, or even give up building cars all together after they wreck their pride and joy. Even though so many of them like to boast the whole "its just a car" attitude about it, it is just their cover up for the emotional hurt, even if it is just subconscious. You can't be passionate about something, then turn around it be "just a car"
With all of that said, from a logical, and financial standpoint, a new shell is the only option.
If I were in your shoes, I would plan on the new shell needing a TON of work before you try to compare it back to the old car. Again, if it was my project, I would strip it all the way down and build back up. Strip it down, repair any rust/metal damage. Do any chassis upgrades you want/can/afford at this point. Some welding, bracing, and body fill goes a really long way. I would be really crazy about it and go over everything with a fine tooth comb. I would inspect the body harness and dash harness to see if anything has been tampered with/damaged. If it has, and it isn't going to be a easy fix, I would swap the harnesses. I would actually really consider swapping the harnesses anyway considering you "know" your old harness. (while everything is stripped out, this would be the perfect time for paint should time/budget allow) From there, it basically becomes a matter of "pick the best" You know the condition of your previous sub frame and suspension. But that doesn't mean you don't get lucky and get a new shell with better parts on it. Point being, don't just assume everything needs swapped. Don't over look anything, take your time and really inspect every little thing as you go. This is not the time to cut corners. It might save some time now, but it will effect the outcome and possibly cost you more in the long run.
Just be meticulous in the swap. I know it sounds "easy" Just unbolt everything, swap it out and boom you're done and ready for fun. It can be done that way, but then you'll be chasing all of the details that make all of the difference once everything is put together.
I'd say this is one of the worst kinds of projects to undertake when you are on a time constraint. IF you are on a time constraint and it has to be done in a certain a mount of time, then plan plan plan a head. Try to schedule and budget your time so you keep on track. The key to doing that, is to take some time and inspect everything the best you can, so you have as much information about what you are about to tackle before putting a wrench to it.
With all of that said,
SE hicas hatch - the hicas rack is neat cause you get more angle out of it. But, the rest of the hicus system can be a real pain and is usually just removed. The fact that it is SE means it should have all of the power options. To me, for a daily driver, that's a plus. But for a project like this, the condition needs to be taken into account. More power options means more wires that can be messed with. Did your old car have all of the power options? Are you prepared to swap all of the harnesses required to make sure the end result is flawless (or at least as flawless as possible) Is it auto or manual? Was it previously swapped? are you going to do the 5 speed swap? Are all of the little SE extras worth it when you take into account the extra work it may need?
Base hatch - I have mixed feelings about base models. I tend to say that the extras make for a more enjoyable daily driver, but my favorite 240 I ever owned was a base model and I think that's part of why I loved it so much. Call me crazy, but I missed the crank windows when I didn't have them any more. BUT, if I kept that car long enough, I would have wished I had the power options because of all of the cool stuff you can do with security systems. To me, the base model would only be an option if it was in amazing condition and required the absolute least amount of work to complete.
The Vert. - Verts are really neat because of the way the chassis was reinforced. They are supposed to actually be stiffer than their coupe counter parts. So from a performance standpoint, that's really cool. It is something that has always attracted me to the verts. The thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger.. the fact that it is convertible. You run the risk that the top has had problems before and leaked and soaked the interior. And you run the risk of it happening to you in the future. The convertible top is awesome, and all that, but it comes with a lot more work. Is all of that extra work worth it? That's debatable. My rule of thumb, is to assume that it is going to need work. Perhaps not right this second, but I would plan on to worst case, that it goes to hell as soon as you get it home. If you are on a tight time frame to begin with, then a convertible might be biting off more than you can chew, which is how I have always looked at it. I haven't ever had the time, nor the budget to allow me to buy a car I didn't "need" to fix it and build it up while I drove my other car, then did whatever swapping I needed in a reasonable time frame and get back on the road.
IF you do have that kind of a budget to work with, then most of that all becomes none issues.
If you can afford to buy the vert, get it home, tear it down, clean it up, fix everything, and make sure the chassis and the top are in tip top shape before pulling your car apart, then I'd do it. (if you really like the idea of a convertible)
(tid bit of caution, the convertible takes up a lot of space inside the car)
If you have a really awesome Budget to work with, then you could afford to buy whatever bits and pieces you need to get the suspension in tip top shape, get the chassis cleaned up, get the paint all sorted out, and get the top in great shape that way you have a rolling chassis that is in awesome shape, then all you need to do is swap the drive train.
It is either going to cost time, or it is going to cost money.
ok, enough of my rambling on and on.
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Now thats what i'm talking about Empire!!!
The "journey"...that comment hit the nail on the head. The process of part gathering, meeting poeple, making new contacts and friends just wont be the same. And that imparts a bond with a car. I think Jermemy Clarkson has written a book about whether or not cars have "souls"...i might have to find it and give it a read.
The HICAS car has my attention. I go to check it out on Saturday. Its also the closest shell too me. It is a full power auto car. details and pix to follow.
Thanks for the feedback Phil!!
-Royce
The "journey"...that comment hit the nail on the head. The process of part gathering, meeting poeple, making new contacts and friends just wont be the same. And that imparts a bond with a car. I think Jermemy Clarkson has written a book about whether or not cars have "souls"...i might have to find it and give it a read.
The HICAS car has my attention. I go to check it out on Saturday. Its also the closest shell too me. It is a full power auto car. details and pix to follow.
Thanks for the feedback Phil!!
-Royce
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After checking it out the HICAS car will more than likely not be the one I chose. There is too much going on with it (wiring issues, etc), along with a previous impact to the rear and not so well done repair will keep me away from taking up this challenge.
I did however find a coupe shell that is not rolling (meaning its seriously been taken apart). The shell is super straight. The car was an original 5spd too. It also has a 5 lug conversion with solid sub-frame bushings already done.
one more left to see before I take the plunge and make the purchase...
-Royce
I did however find a coupe shell that is not rolling (meaning its seriously been taken apart). The shell is super straight. The car was an original 5spd too. It also has a 5 lug conversion with solid sub-frame bushings already done.
one more left to see before I take the plunge and make the purchase...
-Royce
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I traveled to Englewood last night (1.5hr haul) and believe I have found what I'm looking for. A '93 hatch, base like mine, but has power mirrors (?). It's champagne in color. Not much in the way of a looker, but very straight. and where its not, my hatch is straight. Another selling point is the nature of the completeness of the shell. Though I did love the coupe...it was going to be quite some time before I was able to get it road worthy. The price is right for the distance away that it is. I will get pix posted as soon as I can. I hope to transition from the blue shell to the champagne shell over after the Christmas holiday.
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After checking it out the HICAS car will more than likely not be the one I chose. There is too much going on with it (wiring issues, etc), along with a previous impact to the rear and not so well done repair will keep me away from taking up this challenge.
I did however find a coupe shell that is not rolling (meaning its seriously been taken apart). The shell is super straight. The car was an original 5spd too. It also has a 5 lug conversion with solid sub-frame bushings already done.
one more left to see before I take the plunge and make the purchase...
-Royce
I did however find a coupe shell that is not rolling (meaning its seriously been taken apart). The shell is super straight. The car was an original 5spd too. It also has a 5 lug conversion with solid sub-frame bushings already done.
one more left to see before I take the plunge and make the purchase...
-Royce
But that coupe sounds promising. Sounds like it is missing everything that you were going to be taking off anyway.
I traveled to Englewood last night (1.5hr haul) and believe I have found what I'm looking for. A '93 hatch, base like mine, but has power mirrors (?). It's champagne in color. Not much in the way of a looker, but very straight. and where its not, my hatch is straight. Another selling point is the nature of the completeness of the shell. Though I did love the coupe...it was going to be quite some time before I was able to get it road worthy. The price is right for the distance away that it is. I will get pix posted as soon as I can. I hope to transition from the blue shell to the champagne shell over after the Christmas holiday.
It is possible however, to install factory power mirrors on a base model car. As I understand it, the wires are in the harness already, you just have to have the harness that goes from the mirror to the main harness. (I think, don't quote me on that, I could be getting my cars mixed up)
Thats the great thing about the looks of a car, it can always be changed later.
I'm crossing my fingers that whatever you get will be awesome.
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I actually installed power mirrors on the blue hatch; 1) because I couldnt find decent manual mirrors 2) planning for later. But, now I have them for spares. I was hoping to eventually put the harness for them in when i redid the carpet. I'm curious how this ones harness was done.
Need a truck to tow the shell up here. Time to call in a favor i guess.
-Royce
Need a truck to tow the shell up here. Time to call in a favor i guess.
-Royce
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I actually installed power mirrors on the blue hatch; 1) because I couldnt find decent manual mirrors 2) planning for later. But, now I have them for spares. I was hoping to eventually put the harness for them in when i redid the carpet. I'm curious how this ones harness was done.
Need a truck to tow the shell up here. Time to call in a favor i guess.
-Royce
Need a truck to tow the shell up here. Time to call in a favor i guess.
-Royce
I'm thinking this weekend, early afternoon would probably work out best... gotta check and see what is on the agenda before I can commit though.
TOTALLY AWESOME.
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Coupe:
Vert:
__________________
Originally Posted by osama tim laden
This things too low... raise it off the towhooks.
(O=O/-ROUGH WORLD-\O=O)
