Turbo 2.3 project???
OUCH!!!
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Turbo 2.3 project???
Ok, I'm autocrossing so much now that I'm starting to think it's time for a purpose built car. I'm starting to run some national events this year and KNOW that a 3600lb cobra isn't going to cut it.
Here's what I need:
350+ rwhp/tq across a reasonable rpm band.
As close to 2500lbs as I can get.
Here's what I'm thinking will fit the bill...
Foxbody notchback. 2.3L Turbo. 8.8" solid rear swap. Big Brakes. 3 link rear. Coilovers all around. Subframes and possibly a cage for additional rigidity if weight allows(harness and camera mounts at a minimum), the biggest tires i can fit under it.
Obviously, this car will be lightened as much as permitted under the rules (no a/c, no stereo, manual locks/windows, etc).
How close do you think I can get to 2500lbs?
Dave (forcefed), you're the 2.3 turbo man. How's the powerband in the 4cyl's look in that range? How far can they bored/stroked out to?
Here's what I need:
350+ rwhp/tq across a reasonable rpm band.
As close to 2500lbs as I can get.
Here's what I'm thinking will fit the bill...
Foxbody notchback. 2.3L Turbo. 8.8" solid rear swap. Big Brakes. 3 link rear. Coilovers all around. Subframes and possibly a cage for additional rigidity if weight allows(harness and camera mounts at a minimum), the biggest tires i can fit under it.
Obviously, this car will be lightened as much as permitted under the rules (no a/c, no stereo, manual locks/windows, etc).
How close do you think I can get to 2500lbs?
Dave (forcefed), you're the 2.3 turbo man. How's the powerband in the 4cyl's look in that range? How far can they bored/stroked out to?
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2500 lbs may be stretching it unless you gut the interior and possibly add some lightweight body parts or windows.
350rwhp is about the limits of the stock bottom end. Forged pieces would be about $800. You can make that power with stock head and manifolds, but they would need to be ported. A bigger turbo would also be required as well as light fuel system mods (injectors and 255lph in-tank).
350rwhp is about the limits of the stock bottom end. Forged pieces would be about $800. You can make that power with stock head and manifolds, but they would need to be ported. A bigger turbo would also be required as well as light fuel system mods (injectors and 255lph in-tank).
Last edited by Fordified; 02-11-2003 at 12:36 PM.
OUCH!!!
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800 on the bottom end isn't going to be an issue. if I do this, i'm building it to do it right. Nationals are a whole different world. Even stock cars are build to take advantage of every nuance in the rule book.
I think 2500 is probably doable with some careful choices. I've got to maintain a full interior, but am allowed to ditch the back seat (and associated seat belts and such). K-members are currently prohibited, but I can do any control arm I want, so i can save some weight there.
This car should come out to be a monster. We're talking fender flares and 335?(maybe) rear tires.
Just out of curiosity, what would be required to get up around 450 rwhp? 350-450 is really the sweet spot. Anything past that becomes pretty difficult to drive consistantly in an autox type scenario.
Oh, and any idea how the lag is on a setup like that?
I think 2500 is probably doable with some careful choices. I've got to maintain a full interior, but am allowed to ditch the back seat (and associated seat belts and such). K-members are currently prohibited, but I can do any control arm I want, so i can save some weight there.
This car should come out to be a monster. We're talking fender flares and 335?(maybe) rear tires.
Just out of curiosity, what would be required to get up around 450 rwhp? 350-450 is really the sweet spot. Anything past that becomes pretty difficult to drive consistantly in an autox type scenario.
Oh, and any idea how the lag is on a setup like that?
Last edited by Leonard; 02-11-2003 at 12:51 PM.
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Well, anything more than about 350hp and you should be considering some type of programmable EFI setup so the motor can live and perform at its best (at about 350hp you are giving up about 40hp by using factory electronics). Now you can run anything from a $400 EEC Tuner (modifies factory code) up to $3k FAST. That is up to you. You could probably get by with an SDS system and thats pretty cheap.
Lag can be tuned with the turbo you use, but you should be seeing some type of boost by 2500rpm, which you should be able to maintain during a run.
I don't know what you want for a tranny, but the 4 cyl T5's have very short first gear ratios (some are over 4:1). You would be far better off with a V8 T5 (either the 2.95 stock or 3.35 Z spec) and all that is required is either machining the input shaft slightly smaller or putting a different pilot bushing in the crank that is made specifically for the purpose.
Lag can be tuned with the turbo you use, but you should be seeing some type of boost by 2500rpm, which you should be able to maintain during a run.
I don't know what you want for a tranny, but the 4 cyl T5's have very short first gear ratios (some are over 4:1). You would be far better off with a V8 T5 (either the 2.95 stock or 3.35 Z spec) and all that is required is either machining the input shaft slightly smaller or putting a different pilot bushing in the crank that is made specifically for the purpose.
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Good luck with whatever you decide too do.
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boostmonkey
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I had been daydreaming a bit on a project like Leonard has discribed as well. What would you estimate the total cost of a nicely built/upgraded motor w/turbo and intercooler with a mild ECU tuning method would run. Fox 4cyl coupes can be found for 400-700 bucks all day long...
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Core motor $300
Forged internals $800
Turbo $600
Intercooler $500
EFI setup $1k (thats an average)
The rest is porting stuff
Esslinger now makes an aluminum head that accepts stock manifolds that is $1500 minus cam but otherwise complete with big valves and good springs.
Forged internals $800
Turbo $600
Intercooler $500
EFI setup $1k (thats an average)
The rest is porting stuff
Esslinger now makes an aluminum head that accepts stock manifolds that is $1500 minus cam but otherwise complete with big valves and good springs.
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Dave is obviously the man to talk to about the motor as you know and I can assist on the lightweight stuff.
First go with the notchback (non-hatch) for better rigidity and less weight (glass in hatch is heavy). Plus less equip. is required to install the battery in the trunk vs. hatch.
There are plenty of things you can do to lighten the car, I have already done some of them and will be doing more soon.
As far as a very skilled fab guy goes you could have John Moretti (partial owner of Coastal Dyno) do the work. He has a complete shop, lots of skill, and tons of experience.
I would think anything over 350 h.p. on a very light car would be a bitch to control unless you have specific data from someone else. I think the power curve Dave showed would be very ample in a light car.
Just my .02
First go with the notchback (non-hatch) for better rigidity and less weight (glass in hatch is heavy). Plus less equip. is required to install the battery in the trunk vs. hatch.
There are plenty of things you can do to lighten the car, I have already done some of them and will be doing more soon.
As far as a very skilled fab guy goes you could have John Moretti (partial owner of Coastal Dyno) do the work. He has a complete shop, lots of skill, and tons of experience.
I would think anything over 350 h.p. on a very light car would be a bitch to control unless you have specific data from someone else. I think the power curve Dave showed would be very ample in a light car.
Just my .02
