yea i know it's a good intake but the vic jr would flow a lot better with my ported heads and cams and get me closer to my N/A goal.. but i only have another month and a half before i go to the sandbox.. so i dont know if i'll be able to get all this done..

 

The 4.6 is a different animal. First off the 2v GT motors barely make 250 - 270 RWHP using every single bolt on, long tube headers and off road exhaust. With head porting and cams they barely eclipse 290 - 330 RWHP. For them to go beyond 330 RWHP NA takes a lot of money (machine work) and some light weight trick parts and even then its unlikely they will see 400 RWHP. In order for him to see 400hp NA he would need to drop in a 4v.


Hurst[/quote]


Ive seen an article with just a carb change and timing locked at 19 degrees
it layed down 290 hp then with headers it was 320 then mild ported heads no cams 380 ....

ive seen a ls1 motor pick up over 80 hp with just a carb change

 

At the crank maybe.

My 96 GT final engine configuration 2v break down,.

96 4.6 stock short block
99 PI heads, shaved .027 and hand ported by me. I pocketed them and unshrouded the intake ports in the combustion chambers, exhaust ports were just polished. Cams were stock 2002 GT PI cams.
PI intake from 2000 GT.
Ported and honed upper plenum from 2004 GT,.. EGR port was filled in and smoothed with the honing.
BBK 75mm TB. Upper plenum was port matched to the TB.
BBK CAI
Screamin Demon ignition modules, 10.5MM MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs gapped at .46
BBK 1 5/8 long tube headers with 2.5" collectors
2.5" BBK off road H-pipe
Flowmaster short 2 chamber mufflers into dumps.

Custom dyno tune performed by Brian of EFI-Unlimited,.. he was with James at RaceRelated at the time if this gives you an idea of long ago this was.

T45 tranny with 4.10 rear rear.

Originally made 269hp 293 trq before the head porting. Picked up 23hp after porting and made 292hp and 298 trq.

Thats a 4.6 pushing almost 11:1 cr with just about every possible mod you can do short of using aftermarket cams. With cams its doubtful the motor would have made more then 320 to the wheels. So I find it very difficult to envision a carb'd 4.6 with out headers making 290 to the wheels. They dont,.. they make 215 - 225 to the wheels with stock manifold. With out headers and every bolt on they still rarely exceed 250 rwhp. I cant see a carb conversion with timing locked at 19 deg picking up 50 hp on a 4.6. You can school me on the 5.0 motors. I'll be the first one to admit I dont know all the tricks. But I've done enough 4.6 engines on my own to feel confident and say that they did not put down those numbers as advertised.

Not trying to discredit you John. Not in anyway at all. But a 4.6 making 380 with stock cams just isnt going to happen. Not with 2v heads. I ported the piss out of my heads,. as good or better then anything you'd get from the big name shops, plus they had been shaved and I only picked up 23 hp with stock cams.

The the LSx with carb is apples and oranges to a 2v 4.6. LS1 heads flow almost as good as 4v B heads. The stock LS1 intakes are notorious for restricting HP. Its one of the 'manditory' mods on those motors like changing the MAF, TB and intake on a 5.0. For them going to the Fast intake or similar is an expected mod. I could see a Vic Jr and 750 carb on an LS1 making 80 hp or very close to it. Thats reasonable. They commonly pick up 40 - 50 HP with the Fast intake. But for a carb'd 2v 4.6 to make 100 more HP then a comparable EFI car? I dont see it.

Hurst

 

Why does eveyone assume the OP has a mustang? There is a crown Vic in his avatar and his s/n would suggest likewise. If i remember correctly, crown vics were still NPI in 2001 and they still used mechanical fans.

 

The engine in the picture does not look like a crown vic engine. They used a different intake,.. Crown Vic was closer to what the Tbird/Cougar used.

And besides. Everything I discussed is engine related and can be applied to a Crown Vic just as easily as anything else with a 2v 4.6. They ALL used the same internals. So to make 400hp from one is the same to make 400hp from the other. The same rules apply to ALL. To assume that 2001 - 2004 2v 4.6 is magically stronger then say a 96 2v 4.6 is false. For the 2v cars there are really only 2 things to be concerned with. PI and NPI. The have,. and the have-nots. Its really that simple. The whole Romeo/Windsor 6 bolt vs 8 bolt debate is old and crusty and has been debunked time and time again.

Hurst

 

that wasn't directed at you intentionally, sorry for the confusion. and yes, the engine in the first picture is a crown vic motor. P71's looked like mustang engines with the upper intake swapped to the drivers side, like older crown vics did with the 5.0.

true, the internals are the same throughout the 2v lineup, but his first goal should be ditching the restrictive NPI heads first if he plans on keeping the stock shortblock.

 

Then they changed them from the 93 - 95 that I have worked on. I have not been under the hood of any 2000+ Crown Vics so I honestly dont know. The trucks and vans used a similar intake setup,.. thats why I assumed it was from there. Difficult to see the valve covers to determine romeo or windsor in the first pic. Looks like a Romeo at first glance,.. but the intake looked like that of the 97 - 01 F150.

And +1 on the heads. PI heads are a dime a dozen these days. Just need to shop around. Just stay away from the rednecks who think PI heads are worth a gold mine.

Hurst

 

My argument is that they didnt always have mech fans in them. I know first hand because my p71 fried the fan relay a couple times and i replaced it with junkyard relays.

 

My mistake, my mind went blank for a little bit the day I made the post. I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) pulled and was on some pretty good drugs at the time I had just gotten out of spitting blood for about 4 hours..

I do not have a mechanical fan.


To clear up a couple other things from other posters...

I DO have PI heads , my car is a 2001 with a cracked plastic intake atm.

My wifes interceptor is an 02 with the upgraded intake. I know the difference.

I know you don't get 400 hp from an intake .. and I never claimed to want that much at the wheels either.

I posted up the picture just to show the main difference of the setup, no need to get panties in a wad over what cars the engines came out of you get the main idea and that's what I meant to get across by it. If you have a problem with the pictures I can give you the hotrod site I picked them from and you can argue with those guys. I said "before and after" because that is an actual before and after build from the site who hosted the pics and build thread Yes the build did involve a head swap.

I planned on building the car eventually, and don't want to waste my money on parts I won't need. This is why I am looking at getting the edelbrock intake and carbing the car. Its the route I wanted to go, but I wanted some input because It has been years since I have messed with fords.. I'm a 5.0 guy at heart, It would be nice to put a 331 in... but I'm stuck with what I have so I'm going to make the best lemonade I can

 

Though my posts can be lengthy reads at time,.. I have a tendency to ramble on because I type as fast as the words come to my head,.. so it just gets blurted out here on the screen. I apologize if it gets tedious.

I was merely trying to make suggestions.

The most affordable way to make 350+ hp out of a 4.6 is with some kind of power adder. In NA form once you reach 250 - 275 rwhp,.. it will become expensive to make beyond 300hp. I had almost $4000 tied up in my setup and I had not even purchased cams yet and I struggled yet I never eclipsed 300 hp to the wheels. My saving grace was a broken crank snout which ultimately made me angry and I pretty much gave the motor away. I sold the short block and heads with ARP studs to BVH for $100. Thats how frustrated I was with the 2v. I had decided I would never do another 2v engine.

Nothing wrong with going carb'd. Just wanted you to realize that your looking at close to $1500 to convert it to carb. I could think of better engine solutions if having a carb was your primary goal. I could also think of better ways to spend $1500 on a 4.6 engine to go faster. The Edlebrock intakes only work with PI heads anyway,.. I dont know of any carb manifolds or adapter plates to convert to carb that work with the NPI heads. I just wanted to get that out in the open. So for anyone reading this that is interested in going carb'd.. you MUST have PI (2v) or C heads (4v) or later for the current choice of carb manifolds/adapter plates to work properly.

What ever route you decide,.. be sure to post up in the projects section and please post up some pics of your progress. I am always lurking in there reading what others are doing. I am absolutely passionate about reading how others are building their cars.

Hurst