eric, i never once argued those facts. i fully agree with what was going on was dangerous. i told you this time and time again. my problem was not in your assessment of the situation, but rather your initial reaction and statements made to me that offended me. we can all work together here. i told jose and everyone that it wasnt a great venue for beginners. but i wasnt about to drive all the way down just to turn back.


as far as tandem... yeah it wasnt a safe practice, but we know our limits and each others' . i was confident in the fact that we knew what we were doing. i mean shit, you let me and bill tandem at the last one.

eric. i never once blasted your opinions or your ideals. i have always enjoyed your events and fully plan on joining in on each one. all i can say is this last one was their first attempt and it can only get better. any first times (business starts, etc) get off on a rocky foot. this, too, shall pass and i hope that there can be some sort of common ground that is met and safe fun can be had by all in upcoming future events. im sure after this weekend that there will be a more selective venue and/or participant roster.

from what i know, there is current scouting for new areas and new surroundings for future events that im sure we could all benefit from.

 

taylor, thanks for the support.

I think you have to take some of my comments with a grain of salt. My position in the industry and my job requires me to be a nitpicky asshole. But when I throw in a comment like "haha donuts!" you have to understand that I'm really joking and not criticizing. It's hard to separate the two given the circumstances, but that's part of the fun in getting to know me, I suppose.

I agree with you -- they can get better. However they WON'T get better because their ideals are all screwed up. Read my letter to Tony -- he thinks drifting is ABOUT crashing. Not that crashing is a part of drifting. Not that crashing is cool. That "drifting is about crashing". He went so far as to say "If you are scared of the walls you shouldn't be drifting."

This type of commentary just goes to show that he doesn't understand the nature of what it is that we do. He said "I have a stack of drift videos and there are crashes in them all." But that represents a small percentage of the overall event participation. Look at the track records of events at hialeah so far -- you are dealing with high casualty rates.

I just find it saddening that the opportunity to work with us was poisoned by his greed. His motiviation for using Hialeah is purely financial. "It is cheap" he said. So if other suitable venues are too expensive based on the interest level, maybe it is an indication that you are trying to do things ahead of your time?

Look at Apple and the Newton. The Newton was a great PDA, but it was way ahead of its time. The item preceded the interest. That's why the Newton failed.

There are some things that you just can't force. If SFM continues in the vein they are going in, they are going to force themselves out of the picture, and possibly damage drifting in the process. This is exactly the type of thing that I had an argument with the New York Region SCCA Solo2 president about several years ago. SFM is emphasizing the spectator side of drifting at the cost of the safety of its participants. This is the type of situation that insurance companies go nuts over and pull policies about.

*I* personally know you are a good drifter, as well as Rob and Bill. However Tony does not know your experience like I do (through Matt whom you have known for a long time). He does not know enough about drifting to understand the consequences of your actions. *I* know that if there was an incident that neither of you would have cared, but that does not make the situation right. You have to do what is right at all times, even at the cost of having some fun.

DG is requiring added side impact protection for competition tandem, and strongly suggests it for tandem practice. We may even simply require it straight out. The cost of cages is so low through us and they are so easy to install and remove (AP bolt-ins) that it might as well be a requirement. But to just let some people out there of unknown skill level and unknown history (on his part) with minimal safety equipment is called gross negligence and is something you can get sued for when the shit hits the fan (or maybe the wall, in this case).

I love you guys. You all have a lot of potential. But please understand that this is not me trying to muscle anyone out. I am trying to protect YOU guys, not my interests. I am trying to protect OUR sport, not my wallet. I'd love to show you how much money I have LOST promoting this sport, promoting our events, and trying to make drifting more accessible and more fun. I wish you would understand how much of this is fueled by pure heart on my side, and how often I want to quit.

I already know about the other areas, and I'm looking into them. For the amount of people who want to particpate down in Miami, the cost of the event can't really be justified without some solid sponsorage. Primus is a stretch, but if everyone that came to D-Day 1 comes out for the second invasion, we should be in good shape.

Just remember who is looking out for your asses and who is having BBQs with you after his car catches on fire

 

I didn't offer to pay people to boycott the event

I didn't even use the word boycott!

I offered people incentives to come to Primus and our other locations for all upcoming events! The same thing that Tony did for you and Bill! Let's get our facts straight, and keep this thread on track.

 

eric. im glad at least we agree. like i said before i have never had a problem with you. maybe i took what you said the wrong way. and IF i did, then for that i apologize. it just seemed that after i made my run and came up, you were very stand offish towards me and after that, i took comments as snide.

as far as tony... i understadn where you both are coming from and i know his position on the sport. but tony is the coordinator for hialeah i suppose and as i said earlier, jose and combustion inc are searching other venues to get away from the dangers of the walls, etc.

i hope that this drama will pass soon an we can compete amongst each other peacefully and have fun at the same time. this is a sport of fun and skill and i hope it stays that way.

and matt, thats just what people told me that came up to me. i was offered no incentive by tony so i dont know what that came from.

 

we all know that drifting isnt about crashing, but i think it is a part of the sport that cannot be ignored, because it does happen, as it does in every motorsport (rally, drag, even formula 1). obviously not on purpose, and should not be just shrugged off, but i think thats a factor you have to accept with any motorsport. though i do agree, it does sound like a lot of accidents from one event..

eri[c/k], thanks.

james, i know exactly what you are trying to say. when i crashed into a guardrail 2 days before dday 1, i wasnt angry, i just accepted it because i realized there would be risks in the first place...i felt like i knew how to not make those kinds of mistakes again.
at first i almost felt proud that i was one of the people who had the balls to be out there and go for it, but looking back i see now that was very, very.. stupid. if i had known my own limits and didnt make such stupid mistakes my car wouldnt be halfway totaled right now, and id have spent good money elsewhere making the car better instead of just, back to normal.
at the same time, i feel like a better driver now than i ever have been, and i know the accident helped. i know it was not the actual crash or impact that did it, but its kind of like negative reinforcement, so you KNOW those same mistakes will yield major consequences.

so basically, im sorry to see the pinkness damaged, but im glad to hear youre getting better. see you at dday2.

 

Mike, I agree with you on many levels (it's Mike, right?). But I still don't think novice drifters should have been *given* the chance to hit a wall. That in itself was the first huge mistake made. Just to have the event there like it was held. Like I said before and like Erik has said, it's not the drivers who really made the mistake, it's the people who put on the event by giving them a chance to hit a wall.

Your situation was completely different. You weren't drifting at a legal, sanctioned event. You took the risk of street drifting. No sanctioned *clinic* which should cater to beginners should even have a wall in such close proximity to hit and then after multiple drivers hit it multiple times, nothing being said or done to prevent it from happening so many times was just ridiculous. Unlike the street, this was supposed to at least be a little safe.

Thank you for actually being one to read through Erik's replies and letter thoroughly. It's pretty informative.

 

I haven't heard a lot of stories about people crashing at an autox, maybe one or two instances of people driving into lakes, but those are generally limited to an elite group of autox professionals.

There is a huge difference between crashing a race car and crashing a daily driver though, I'm sure you know that well. It is the reason I don't want to drive entombed by walls at hialeah....body and frame damage is a lot harder to fix than busted suspension. There are a good deal of people who do not have as much sense though who also cannot necessarily risk their daily drivers in such a manner. These are the people that need to be 'protected from themselves' (we should also confiscate their beer and cigarettes!). Those are the ones who won't take necessary precautions to avoid killing their cars (/themselves?) and will scare insurance companies away from the sport. There are a lot of people who are familiar with drifting and its consequences. The people who read the message boards and want to give drifting a spin are those who need to be watched the most. They will be most susceptible to the 'red mist' feelings of invincibility.

How do we keep them from crashing? Restrict registration to experienced drifters...but there is not a terribly good way of judging 'experienced' at the moment.
...or shy away from unsafe venues en masse, it could only take a single rogue 'promoter' to ruin such a method though.

Of course, there are the sadistic bastards whom comprise the majority of the drifters I've met who will jump on their hood and strike a valiant pose after an intimate session with the wall, they should just be institutionalized to a remotely located purpose-built drift track...

...now all I need is a drift-bitch so the walls will fear my car, not the other way around...

 

regina, yeah, im mike.

i agree with you, but at the same time everyone is fiending for decent seat time right now, myself included. i would not have entered an event on the oval track because of my previous accident, as the resulting fear was basically negative reinforcment to remember my limits as a learning driver.

however, and i think several will agree, even though the dday events are practice sessions only, you cant argue that it is not a quiet competition. sure, there are no places, no prizes, and no public commentary, but people talk. people know who is stepping it out farther than anyone else, people talk about how bad ass anyones last run was, people talk about how much someone sucked, and you hear it, and you want to do better. not so you win a prize, not so you get placed, but everyone subconsciously wants a piece of that recognition, if not for the sake of your "fame", for the sake of personal honor, to be "good". its why people practice illegally, its why people spend assloads of money on parts, its why people wreck their cars at unsafe events. people want to get better, and drive well, and one of the only ways to do that is with practice that comes more often than once a month.


main idea: for the sake of drift, more safe events, please.

 

heres the figure 8 track, the walls were nice and close..... ive seen james out there, ive seen her skill, and it has improved GREATLY since Dday I..... and i give her major props for sticking with the sport, but imo i dont think she was ready to take it to a track like this, i dont mean to single you out, i dont think must of us would want to try and drift that, their is little room to mess up.

several people have expressed their opion about the track not being the best place to pratice. http://www.drifting.com/forums/showt...&threadid=3109 he pretty much called us chicken for not competing in the event.... saying we were stage fright. i bet most of us didnt compete just because we didnt want to hit a wall. it just sux that it had to happen, but shit happens


i had fun at the events, and i hope to see more of them.................... just not in miami, too far

 

hey jamie!! damn it got fed up worse then my car..

but i know secrets to fixing the rear. well its not really a secret, but get a 2x4 and a hammer and pound that bitch out from the inside... i agree the track sucks/ isnt safe, but while ur out on it none of that is running through your head. i would go back there, but i agree that novice shouldnt be there. i dont like the way its ran, that guy tony or whatever was shoving me back onto the track when my car was overheating.. i mean i paid to go there and he was basically using me as a show.. but whatever we all knew that. i think primus is going to beat the shit out of this track. then we all have drift showoff and d1 search to look foward to!!

back on track.
jamie. i heard u rock the cock now. taylor told me.
but for real i heard ur gettin good dude!!! maybe i can rep a no ho's sticker if u want???!!!? ahaha i <3 all nadt. wish we were still close how we used to be. but i can only see the sport prospering from now. AND TAYLOR I HEARD U TORE THE SHIT OUT OF IT!!!!