Stock Traction rods vs Aftermarket
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Simply adding a traction arm does very little. It needs to be adjusted. If those cars had them set to stock, you WOULDN'T feel a difference in pure handling. Go get a car with them set to stock. Drift it. Now set it 10mm shorter (the "catch all" setting for drifters), reset the camber at the ruca, and drive again. You should have much more rear grip than before. I don't drift, but it should let you throw it harder and leave the turns faster.
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I just thought about the fact you said that slammed cars have little camber gain in the front.
Is that because since they turn and caster affects the front tires more that less camber gain is better when under compression in a corner? Is it needed as much as in the rear since the front wheels actually turn?
Is that because since they turn and caster affects the front tires more that less camber gain is better when under compression in a corner? Is it needed as much as in the rear since the front wheels actually turn?
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Simply adding a traction arm does very little. It needs to be adjusted. If those cars had them set to stock, you WOULDN'T feel a difference in pure handling. Go get a car with them set to stock. Drift it. Now set it 10mm shorter (the "catch all" setting for drifters), reset the camber at the ruca, and drive again. You should have much more rear grip than before. I don't drift, but it should let you throw it harder and leave the turns faster.
I kind of want to try this now. I have my rears cambered about 1.5 degree in the back..
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Last edited by 4wheeldriftS13; Mar 3, 2009 at 07:49 AM.
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The front wheels have little camber gain because of the included angle between the strut axis and mechanical "LCA". On a low car, it's approaching an angle close to 90*. Anywhere leading up to 90*, you're going to get negligable camber gain. This is all just geometry.
The deal with camber gain from caster is that the wheels actually have to be turned. This isn't as much the case when you're pulling 1G in a sweeping turn as opposed to 1G in a tight mountain road. Both should have the same/similar compression, but the latter will have more steering angle and therefore more camber.
The deal with camber gain from caster is that the wheels actually have to be turned. This isn't as much the case when you're pulling 1G in a sweeping turn as opposed to 1G in a tight mountain road. Both should have the same/similar compression, but the latter will have more steering angle and therefore more camber.
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Note: you need a pretty stiff suspension to really make this work. Tweaking the lengths this much really increases the geometric bind under compression. That's before you even add in the bushing bind.
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I think I know what you're saying, and the theory is basically true. I just don't think your perception is right. Yes, in unequal length a-arm suspensions (technically the Ruca and Trac arm together make the top A-arm), the shorter the upper arm relative to the lower arm, the quicker the camber angle increases.
Again, your problem is that you keep referencing the angle between the tire and car's vertical; camber. That's not what matters. It's the tire's angle with the ground that is the important part. The difference is body roll. And the effect that makes up for body roll is camber gain. Therefore it's feasible to build/tune a system to keep the tire at a fixed angle with the ground at all rolls/compressions. Now the rest of the misperception is the assumption that you don't need more camber gain. And you can't say that without measurements. And yes I have them. But then you can get into a debate about increasing loads and proper camber angles, so it really don't progress the topic much.
Basically, at a ride height of -2", the stock length traction arm and RUCA length set to -2.25* camber will gain 1* of camber per 1" of compression. If you shorten the traction arm by 1/4", the camber will gain 1.5" per 1" of compression. All measurements done in my garage.
Again, your problem is that you keep referencing the angle between the tire and car's vertical; camber. That's not what matters. It's the tire's angle with the ground that is the important part. The difference is body roll. And the effect that makes up for body roll is camber gain. Therefore it's feasible to build/tune a system to keep the tire at a fixed angle with the ground at all rolls/compressions. Now the rest of the misperception is the assumption that you don't need more camber gain. And you can't say that without measurements. And yes I have them. But then you can get into a debate about increasing loads and proper camber angles, so it really don't progress the topic much.
Basically, at a ride height of -2", the stock length traction arm and RUCA length set to -2.25* camber will gain 1* of camber per 1" of compression. If you shorten the traction arm by 1/4", the camber will gain 1.5" per 1" of compression. All measurements done in my garage.
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Nicolai
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so much better cleaned up...
after i had all my arms on the car i went to S&R and i had the suspension tuned... so i did feel a great improvement with the trac rods... didnt just throw them in there and call it a day....
after i had all my arms on the car i went to S&R and i had the suspension tuned... so i did feel a great improvement with the trac rods... didnt just throw them in there and call it a day....
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PBM fender roller for rent!!
PBM fender roller for rent!!
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Craig - I had a seizure.. I just got back from ST. Joseph. thanks a lot Epstein haha
Do you think that's the reason that I snapped mine? too stiff? Tight? Or crappy parts and too tight?
Do you think that's the reason that I snapped mine? too stiff? Tight? Or crappy parts and too tight?
