Iron sucks. Iron is heavy and bulky and rusts. Aluminum is where its at. Are you gonna complain about the LS1 blocks? how bout the L88 427 BB from the Old stingrays... where's youre bitching about iron now? Aluminum is a better heat sink, lighter and easier to work. Aluminum allows you to run more compression on the same motor cuz it dissapates the heat faster and keeps detonation at bay thus reducing the requirement for high octane fuel so early. Cast iron is gay. Cast iron is only good for Turbine housings and turbo manifolds these days.. Aluminum is where its at, especially forged and billet (for instance Crower rods and BAER brake calipers) still wishing you had more cast iron on cars?

I admit, Cast iron is best reserved for blocks cuz its more durable and doesnt warp all to hell... but thats only an issue if you have too much detonation, which leads to broken piston ring lands and blown head gaskets, which will lead to coolant loss, which will lead to overheating, thus, resulting in the warped deck... but if you were smart in the first place and tuned it safely instead of ham-fistedly, you wouldnt need it in the first place... but yea, i would rather have cast iron block as more peice of mind

anyhow, its not the 4 bangers that make turbos look good... a turbo is a turbo and its job is to pump air, thats it... its not the turbos fault that mazda cant get more than 170HP out of that 2.0L protege block... its basically a turbo kit bolted on a stock protege block. the reason it has "lack luster" performance is cuz the protege TRANNY cant hold more than 170 HP w/o being reliable... w/ the proper tuning and engineering, the motor can probably make 250-300HP at the flywheel. If you ever sat down to read the book "Maximum Boost" by Corkey Bell, youd see that turbos dont add enough stress to the engine to make it susceptible to catastrophic failure. only thing that takes more of a beating is the bearings and rod bolts... and a little more on the main caps/bolts.

anyhow, are you gonna argue w/ a little 2.0L 4 banger that makes ~850HP at the flywheel, or 687HP at the wheels? a car that runs low 9's in the 1/4 mile... a car that hits 150+ MPH traps? a car that is driven on the street, and still has an interior and dash? thats the beauty of a turbo, and GOOOOOD tuning and even BETTER driving.

the reason cars liek the EVO and WRX are "tonned down" is so that retards dont get them and blow them up and take them back to the dealer and have thousands of dollars worth of warranty work performed, there is a safety margin built in. and if every car was built and programmed to run on the ragged edge and make maximum horsepower, they would fail very fast... dont you know, thats the reason why Nascar motors have to be built for EVERY race. and Top fuel/Funny cars like John Force have to have their motors rebuilt between each session (eliminations, quarterfinals, semifinals, etc). these cars are tuned for max HP, and run on the razor edge... and i dont think the dealer wants to get ass raped in warranty work cuz some punk ass kid doesnt know how to baby a car and just beats the hell out of it every day.

besides, Displacment isnt the answer... there IS a replacement for it, and its called forced induction. Turbos harness "free" energy to multiply the power of a motor... thats why 4 bangers can run as fast as or faster than V8's. oh, and 2.0L 4 cylinders are about as big as they can get and still be free revving and somewhat balanced from the factory w/o requiring extensive balancing and blue printing. 2.4L/2.6L are pushing the edge, are inherently unbalanced and too big for their own good.

remember when 1HP per Cubic inch was a big deal? like a 283 SBC in a Corvette w/ Rochester mechanical fuel injection that made 283HP... imagine if it made 100 HP per liter. it would have made like 480HP or so, that would have been something to be REALLY proud about, but wait, honda has done it over and over. The old SI civic had 100 HP/Liter, the Integra Type-R has 100HP/Liter or so... the Evo has MORE than 100HP/Liter, so does the STi, so does the normal WRX. the RX7 has always had more than 100HP/liter... how much HP/Liter do the Crustangs and Firebirds have? sure as hell isnt 100HP/Liter. wheres your bleeding heart for them? shit, the VIPER doesnt even have 100HP/Liter and everyone thinks its the next best thing since sliced bread... the truth is that its a pile. Inefficient and has an RPM band like a Caterpillar... 488 CID V10...psh, what the hell ever. There is a replacment for Displacment and its called a Turbo, and its what makes V8 Eaters out of 4 bangers... and 6 cylinders in the case of my Supra

but back to the topic at hand, i would love to see those Mazdaspeed 6's on this side of the ocean. Mazda would have its Game lined up then... and if they would finally put some freakin Power behind the Miata, they could annihilate the Market for the S2000... piece of crap, 240HP roadster that dont make power till 6000rpm. all the Miata needs is the new Rotary and put out at least the same HP (which is no prob for the new rotary) and that thing would kick substantial ass.

 

damn that thing is really cool looking

 

This thread has drifted off topic quite a bit, as things tend to. My take on the motor thing is, horses for courses. You like big motors, buy a car with big motors. You like high revving 4s, buy a high revving 4. What difference does it make? We all love our funking cars, so who gives a scheize what sort of mill is making the power? Old V8s just do nothing for me, but there's no arguing with 750-800 naturally aspirated horsepower with even more torque. But that big 8 is a heavy lump to lug around. Give me a nice 2.0L H4 with a nicely matched turbocharger making a modest 300bhp or thereabouts and I'm happy. I can still drive it everyday and have a little fun with the go pedal once in a while. Horses for courses.

As for the Mazda 6, the real world pics look good and the nimbers sound impressive, but still not my cup of tea. I'd take the EVO before the six for its aggressive looks if nothing else.

 

If you put a turbo on a 4 banger and a turbo on a V8, which do you think has the greater potential?

Why compare forced induction 4 bangers against N/A V8's...Don't you think it best to compare forced induction against forced induction and N/A against N/A...

So it looks like you are mistaken on this as There is NO replacment for Displacment

 

That would be the Focus RS. Unfortunately it is not AWD, but it does come with about 220-240hp (can't remember exactly what it was) and the plumped WRC-Focus like fenders. We'll never see this in the US.

The Cosworth Focus is predicted to come out in Europe in 2006, after the new 2005 model is released by Ford. A couple test mules have already been spied in Europe sporting AWD. Cosworth states it will push about 300hp and be in direct competition with the STi and EVO. This will never see the US shores either.

SVT has been cock-teasing the public with some sort of forced induction Focus for 2005. Probably be based on the new 2.3l Duratec, and probably have some sort of limp-wristed turbo huffing low boost into the motor.

Sorry to divert attention from the dead-sexy Mazda 6. I'm crossing my fingers hoping Mazdaspeed will do a better job with this than they did with the Protege.

 

I dream of the day that a Cosworth AWD FI is relased in the USDM.

 

If you decide to buy one, it'll likely be in the same price range as the STi, so why not make the right choice and pick up the Scoob? I guarantee you it will have a better tranny than whatever Ford throws in the 6!

 

blah blah blah, cast iron sucks, blah blah blah, no replacement for displacement, i swear to god i get dumber every time i read shit like that, my cast iron motor had no problem handing it to many motors more than twice and in some cases 3 times its size, but whatever....the mazda is nice, but being the mitsu-head that i am, i'd still take an evo 3 RS over all that is AWD FI...btw, the evo's are rated better to drive in all the tests over the STi, the Sti just accelerates faster, and understeers about as good as it accelerates, interesting, i'd like to see a couple square off on a road course....someone else made a big deal of the forged bottom end of the STi that the 4G63 supposedly didnt have....well, i guess whoever made that assumption decided to go based on the 4G63's of yesteryear with the high tempt cast bottom end and not to take a newer one apart, as Mach V performance did, to see for themself, and see that it in fact does have a forged motor, its a tough market, so if mazda really wants to jump in on that battle royal, they damn sure better have their best set of wrestling tights on ...ladies and gentlemen, this has been Sean's 3:45 a.m. rant, and i have no idea what i just said

 

Uh, who said anything about the EVO? I like the EVO VI best of the line, for style and performance possbilities. The VIII is just not as appealing to me. That being said, I'd take an EVO over this Mazda, assuming it were to come out.

I would suggest that a little research is in order. The STi's 6-speed has become legendary among Subaru fans worldwide because of its remarkable strength. It is hardened, double shot peened, the works. The case was totally redesigned to eliminate flexing under heavy load and all the gears were beefed up. Plus the clutch is super tough as well, so the driveline is awesome. The one big strike for the EVO in my mind is that it's already running big boost to make its power (19.5psi from the factory is big). That causes some complications when you want to start turning up the whick. Also, it didn't beat the STi in every magazine's tests, just a majority of them. Primary amongst its advantages was its quicker steering rack, which made the car seem more agile and "pointy", according to the mag writers. Many also commented that the EVO felt cheap in overall fit and fitment, compared to the STi. Neither car was without its criticism.

I prefer the STi, especially over something created by the Ford Motor Company or one of its subsidiaries (nothing personal Ford fans, so please stay calm ). It's a matter of personal preference, nothing more.

Can't we all just get along?