European cars...
Not Mad
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,411
Likes: 0
So, what makes a car European? Obviously, if you were to go to Europe and buy a VW, it is a European car. How about the Ford Escort? It originated in Europe, gained popularity, and was introduced into the US in the 80s. However, Ford is still an american company. If A civic was produced in Australia, it wouldn't be an Australian car.
The Focus also originated in Europe, with sales beginning a year before the US saw this car.
Also, on the off chance the Focus / Escort COULD be considered a Euro car, would that make the US versions of them Euro?
This may seem like a question for a Focus forum. However, the Focus forums are full of jackasses who think that putting the Euro bumper on their car makes it European.
So what do you guys think?
The Focus also originated in Europe, with sales beginning a year before the US saw this car.
Also, on the off chance the Focus / Escort COULD be considered a Euro car, would that make the US versions of them Euro?
This may seem like a question for a Focus forum. However, the Focus forums are full of jackasses who think that putting the Euro bumper on their car makes it European.
So what do you guys think?
What about Japanese cars made in the U.S ?? The Honda Accord is built in Ohio and uses around 70% of domestic parts and Toyota's Corolla is made in a California plant near General Motors IIRC. They should bring over that European version of the Focus to the States.
__________________
Banned
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 17,971
Likes: 0
Last edited by Graves; Jun 7, 2010 at 03:16 PM.
Offset-----Less is MORE!!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,160
Likes: 0
1) Euro cars are made by Companies that are based in europe.
2) The focus was designed at Ford by the guy they stole from VW, so it was designed by an american company but definately had a euro influence
3) if you use the "where it's made" is what it is logic then Hyundai/Honda/Nissan are all american cars and a large amount of Chevy/Ford/General MOtors etc are NOT United States cars then...
2) The focus was designed at Ford by the guy they stole from VW, so it was designed by an american company but definately had a euro influence
3) if you use the "where it's made" is what it is logic then Hyundai/Honda/Nissan are all american cars and a large amount of Chevy/Ford/General MOtors etc are NOT United States cars then...
__________________
Looking to buy or sell Real Estate, give me a call.
http://liberty-vip.com Flush ≠ VIP. Spread the word in 2012
Looking to buy or sell Real Estate, give me a call.
http://liberty-vip.com Flush ≠ VIP. Spread the word in 2012
Last edited by burgy240; Jun 7, 2010 at 07:22 PM.
Nordschleife addict
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 0
There are some differences in some of the already named cars and I'll try to get some things clear.
I'd say Ford is like two different car makers under one batch, one for the US market and one for the European market.
Some cars like the Focus, Ka, Fiesta and Mondeo are top sellers and have their own production lines in German factories, the RS for example is beeing built in Saarlouis, not far away from where I live.
I bet the front of the Focus like Taylorinalaska drives looks slightly different to the Euro-Focus, I haven't seen his car yet but I guess it has these amber day headlights left and right to the Ford emblem? In German i.e. you don't have to have those amber lights on cars of any make because it's not required by law.
There are more engines to choose from here, from small N/A 4 bangers over to different type of Diesel engines up to the 5 cyl Volvo turbo engined Focus ST and RS.
The European Ford Escort is totally different to the American Ford Escort, it looks different, the engines are different and the Euro Escort only got build until 1995.
Thats one of the biggest differences, the variety of engines in a car.
In the USA the smallest engine you can get for a new BMW 3series is their smallest 6 cylinder.
In Europe it starts with the 318 4cyl whats actually a 2 liter engine. then there's the 318 Diesel, the 320i, the 320 Diesel-------same with the 325, 330 and even the 335.....all of them are also available as Diesel engines.
The thing to do if you want to buy a gas saving BMW is to buy one of the 4 cylinder Diesels because they are way better than the petrol versions....the new 320d "Efficient Dynamics" only needs 58.8l diesel per gallon and is almost as fast as my car what is not bad at all if you consider the 320d only has 164 hp but 400 Nm of torque!
back to the differences.
In Europe some cars aren't that well equipped by factory like the American equivalents, but since most people here only complain when nobody can hear them they pay for the extras.....Japanese cars usually are way better equipped.
Automatic transmissions are only for handicapped people like my grandfather who got injured by a russian artillery grenade in WW2, for luxury sedans or for old people, thats what I think about automatics and alot of other people here also think like that.
so in most "common" cars you'll find stickshifts, but it shows that most of the Benzes, BMWs and Audis are beeing ordered with autmatic gearboxes or, if available, with double clutch gearboxes.
Our cars don't make all these annoying beeping and buzzing sounds apart from some exeptions like if my car buzzes if I forget to turn the lights off after removing the key from the ignition lock......but there were and are no automatic fastening seatbelts and no "dude you left your door open" bells.......but tbh it's getting worse, people get more lazy and stupid they need a reminder for everything.
The new BMW M models won't even start if you haven't put your seatbelt on.
Our cars need to have ABS and ESP. thats why some models aren't available here like the Charger V6 which I read has no ABS.
We have Dodge, Chevrolet and Cadillac dealers.....but we don't get everything you guys in America get. We had no Neon SRT-4s....sure we had crappy shitbox Chrysler rebadged Neons but that was it.....we do get Caliper SRT-4s though, Corvettes and Escalades.
well......nobody buys these cars except for the Vettes maybe, for all the others there are better alternatives with better brakes and with higher top speeds+better interieur quality.
there are tons of things that are different, mostly its about the engines and factory options and build quality....and of course the different EU and US laws.
you think California has strict exhaust gas emissions?
Well....Mazda stopped selling the RX-8 in Germany lately because its emissions are not good enough....same happened back then with the Supra and the RX7 and thats also why we never got the S15 Silvia.
speaking of Silvia, the S14s are called 200sx in Germany, and thats because we got them with the SR20DET stock, always full leather interieur, AC and everything, only option was the choice for an automatic gearbox.
several editions were available, rarest of them all were the Z-Editions, 200 cars in total, 100 in black, 100 in red.....thats how Nissan tried to get customers for the 200sx in Germany.
Its quite a rare car compared to the US.
Making a switch over to Toyota.....we got the GT-Four models of the Celica in Europe.....in Cologne Toyota runs their own performance center which occasionally drops some tweaked versions of their normal cars.
Best examples are the Yaris TS Turbo.....only available in Switzerland, limited to 500 cars as far as I know.
or the Corolla TS compressor, putting down 224 bhp, I saw one of these a few weeks ago but didn't take a picture but I have one of a Yaris Turbo
We don't get most Amercian cars officially like the new Challengers, Camaros, Mustangs, Hummers......but there are ways to buy them.
Geiger Cars in Munich is the unofficial import dealer for every Amercian model, they get their TÜV certification and most of them get a natural gas fuel system to save money (our gas prices are WAY higher than yours).
We are missing some other models as well like the 3rd and 4th version of the Mitsubishi Eclipse or the actual STI sedan, the actual Civic Sedan and Coupe.
All we get are the hatch versions.......in return we have a hatchback version of the Lancer (not the Evo though).
I could go on like this forever.....
most differences are:
model years and body versions (sedans, wagons, hatches and so on)
engines (Diesel, petrol)
equipment (fully loaded or pay for every single thing)
safety (brakes, ESP, ABS, mirrors, crash protection)
names (200sx/240sx - Jetta/Bora etc etc)
nice 2 know:
Audi started the actual daylight running light trend by putting LED daytime running lamps in their cars, now pretty much every manufacturer except the French and BMW (they have halo lights) jumped on the bandwagon, now you have LED lights on the new Mercedes E class, on new Porsches, VWs, Seats, Skodas, Lamborghinis, Ferraris and even on Kias and Daewoos/Chevrolets.
---->as I said, they're not required, its just for looks.
what is required in Europe by law are these humongous rear view mirrors the newer cars have, also the massive A-pillars for better crash results and most of the front designs result out of the regulations for pedestrian protection.
what cars in Europe also need by law are rear fog lights what leads to weird rear bumper designs if the car is not from Europe like this S14a 200sx of a friend of mine
that single red light above the exhaust is the fog light
if the car is an import like some the Skylines or Supras some friends of mine have, they have to "upgrade" such a rear fog light what really looks like shit
here are the two cars of my buddy Björn, his GT-R has a rear fog light, on his STi Wagon it had to be applied additionaly
I'd say Ford is like two different car makers under one batch, one for the US market and one for the European market.
Some cars like the Focus, Ka, Fiesta and Mondeo are top sellers and have their own production lines in German factories, the RS for example is beeing built in Saarlouis, not far away from where I live.
I bet the front of the Focus like Taylorinalaska drives looks slightly different to the Euro-Focus, I haven't seen his car yet but I guess it has these amber day headlights left and right to the Ford emblem? In German i.e. you don't have to have those amber lights on cars of any make because it's not required by law.
There are more engines to choose from here, from small N/A 4 bangers over to different type of Diesel engines up to the 5 cyl Volvo turbo engined Focus ST and RS.
The European Ford Escort is totally different to the American Ford Escort, it looks different, the engines are different and the Euro Escort only got build until 1995.
Thats one of the biggest differences, the variety of engines in a car.
In the USA the smallest engine you can get for a new BMW 3series is their smallest 6 cylinder.
In Europe it starts with the 318 4cyl whats actually a 2 liter engine. then there's the 318 Diesel, the 320i, the 320 Diesel-------same with the 325, 330 and even the 335.....all of them are also available as Diesel engines.
The thing to do if you want to buy a gas saving BMW is to buy one of the 4 cylinder Diesels because they are way better than the petrol versions....the new 320d "Efficient Dynamics" only needs 58.8l diesel per gallon and is almost as fast as my car what is not bad at all if you consider the 320d only has 164 hp but 400 Nm of torque!
back to the differences.
In Europe some cars aren't that well equipped by factory like the American equivalents, but since most people here only complain when nobody can hear them they pay for the extras.....Japanese cars usually are way better equipped.
Automatic transmissions are only for handicapped people like my grandfather who got injured by a russian artillery grenade in WW2, for luxury sedans or for old people, thats what I think about automatics and alot of other people here also think like that.
so in most "common" cars you'll find stickshifts, but it shows that most of the Benzes, BMWs and Audis are beeing ordered with autmatic gearboxes or, if available, with double clutch gearboxes.
Our cars don't make all these annoying beeping and buzzing sounds apart from some exeptions like if my car buzzes if I forget to turn the lights off after removing the key from the ignition lock......but there were and are no automatic fastening seatbelts and no "dude you left your door open" bells.......but tbh it's getting worse, people get more lazy and stupid they need a reminder for everything.
The new BMW M models won't even start if you haven't put your seatbelt on.
Our cars need to have ABS and ESP. thats why some models aren't available here like the Charger V6 which I read has no ABS.
We have Dodge, Chevrolet and Cadillac dealers.....but we don't get everything you guys in America get. We had no Neon SRT-4s....sure we had crappy shitbox Chrysler rebadged Neons but that was it.....we do get Caliper SRT-4s though, Corvettes and Escalades.
well......nobody buys these cars except for the Vettes maybe, for all the others there are better alternatives with better brakes and with higher top speeds+better interieur quality.
there are tons of things that are different, mostly its about the engines and factory options and build quality....and of course the different EU and US laws.
you think California has strict exhaust gas emissions?
Well....Mazda stopped selling the RX-8 in Germany lately because its emissions are not good enough....same happened back then with the Supra and the RX7 and thats also why we never got the S15 Silvia.
speaking of Silvia, the S14s are called 200sx in Germany, and thats because we got them with the SR20DET stock, always full leather interieur, AC and everything, only option was the choice for an automatic gearbox.
several editions were available, rarest of them all were the Z-Editions, 200 cars in total, 100 in black, 100 in red.....thats how Nissan tried to get customers for the 200sx in Germany.
Its quite a rare car compared to the US.
Making a switch over to Toyota.....we got the GT-Four models of the Celica in Europe.....in Cologne Toyota runs their own performance center which occasionally drops some tweaked versions of their normal cars.
Best examples are the Yaris TS Turbo.....only available in Switzerland, limited to 500 cars as far as I know.
or the Corolla TS compressor, putting down 224 bhp, I saw one of these a few weeks ago but didn't take a picture but I have one of a Yaris Turbo
We don't get most Amercian cars officially like the new Challengers, Camaros, Mustangs, Hummers......but there are ways to buy them.
Geiger Cars in Munich is the unofficial import dealer for every Amercian model, they get their TÜV certification and most of them get a natural gas fuel system to save money (our gas prices are WAY higher than yours).
We are missing some other models as well like the 3rd and 4th version of the Mitsubishi Eclipse or the actual STI sedan, the actual Civic Sedan and Coupe.
All we get are the hatch versions.......in return we have a hatchback version of the Lancer (not the Evo though).
I could go on like this forever.....
most differences are:
model years and body versions (sedans, wagons, hatches and so on)
engines (Diesel, petrol)
equipment (fully loaded or pay for every single thing)
safety (brakes, ESP, ABS, mirrors, crash protection)
names (200sx/240sx - Jetta/Bora etc etc)
nice 2 know:
Audi started the actual daylight running light trend by putting LED daytime running lamps in their cars, now pretty much every manufacturer except the French and BMW (they have halo lights) jumped on the bandwagon, now you have LED lights on the new Mercedes E class, on new Porsches, VWs, Seats, Skodas, Lamborghinis, Ferraris and even on Kias and Daewoos/Chevrolets.
---->as I said, they're not required, its just for looks.
what is required in Europe by law are these humongous rear view mirrors the newer cars have, also the massive A-pillars for better crash results and most of the front designs result out of the regulations for pedestrian protection.
what cars in Europe also need by law are rear fog lights what leads to weird rear bumper designs if the car is not from Europe like this S14a 200sx of a friend of mine
that single red light above the exhaust is the fog light
if the car is an import like some the Skylines or Supras some friends of mine have, they have to "upgrade" such a rear fog light what really looks like shit
here are the two cars of my buddy Björn, his GT-R has a rear fog light, on his STi Wagon it had to be applied additionaly
Last edited by tobibeck80; Jun 7, 2010 at 04:10 PM.
Thread Starter
Mr. NiceGuy
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,353
Likes: 0
Awesome. Glad to see so many informative replies, and only one "who gives a shit" lol
Thanks Tobi. For the record, I drive the US mk1 facelift, with the 2.0l Duratec. same chassis, different drivetrain, different bumper covers.
Thanks Tobi. For the record, I drive the US mk1 facelift, with the 2.0l Duratec. same chassis, different drivetrain, different bumper covers.
Nordschleife addict
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 0
A good friend of mine drives a 1st gen Focus I just remembered, it only has 75 or 90 bhp I think (not sure which) but he knows more about them than I do.
One thing I know for sure is that even the 1st gen Focus has a better rear axle than the actual VW Golf.
A very good example what just came to my mind what shows how different some things can be is the E36 M3.
The US version just has a modified M52 engine, its based on the engine I have in my little car.
The European one is way more powerful, is quicker and has a higher top speed.
the engine is completely different to the US Version, it comes with a single throttle body i.e., 3 power levels were available, two of them were 3 liter engines, the more powerful of the two found its place in the 356 units limited M3 GT.
Except for the more power the GT got it also has aluminum lightweight doors, carbon fibre applications, special moldings, a plate with its number on the glove box (xxx/356), suede interieur and full bodykit with huge front splitter and wing.
only available in British Racing green, a friend of mine has one of them with a brand new motor in it, I could post pics later.
The Brits got a 50 units limited M3 GT2 Evo what is basicly the same as the GT but it was available with the 3.2 liter engine, has a way cooler interieur, also suede but with red accents and only came in Imola Red II, same color I got on my car, really hard to find on the E36s.
here's a register website of both cars http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1
pictures
http://www.m3gtregister.com/img/gt2/39-50.jpg
(3rd row from top) http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1
http://www.mym3.co.uk/images/DSC00733.JPG
in this are 3 front splitter pics of my friends M3 GT, you have to scroll down
http://www.bmw-syndikat.de/bmwsyndik...BMW_-_E36.html
What America got instead wasn't that bad at all, IMHO I think it was even better than the M3 GT.
America got the M3 CSL or also called Lightweight, avaiable only in Alpine white with M-color sticker stripes on it.
It had so many remarkeable things I'm to lazy to type them all in here so I just give you a link.
http://www.qv500.com/bmwe36m3p3.php
only thing what I think it's weird that it hasn't got the real M3 seats from the coupe with the headrests which give the seats a bucket-seat like look :-/
The Lightweight, the GT and the GT2 Evo share the same bodykit, so you can tell alone by the color which is which
One thing I know for sure is that even the 1st gen Focus has a better rear axle than the actual VW Golf.
A very good example what just came to my mind what shows how different some things can be is the E36 M3.
The US version just has a modified M52 engine, its based on the engine I have in my little car.
The European one is way more powerful, is quicker and has a higher top speed.
the engine is completely different to the US Version, it comes with a single throttle body i.e., 3 power levels were available, two of them were 3 liter engines, the more powerful of the two found its place in the 356 units limited M3 GT.
Except for the more power the GT got it also has aluminum lightweight doors, carbon fibre applications, special moldings, a plate with its number on the glove box (xxx/356), suede interieur and full bodykit with huge front splitter and wing.
only available in British Racing green, a friend of mine has one of them with a brand new motor in it, I could post pics later.
The Brits got a 50 units limited M3 GT2 Evo what is basicly the same as the GT but it was available with the 3.2 liter engine, has a way cooler interieur, also suede but with red accents and only came in Imola Red II, same color I got on my car, really hard to find on the E36s.
here's a register website of both cars http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1
pictures
http://www.m3gtregister.com/img/gt2/39-50.jpg
(3rd row from top) http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...26tbs%3Disch:1
http://www.mym3.co.uk/images/DSC00733.JPG
in this are 3 front splitter pics of my friends M3 GT, you have to scroll down
http://www.bmw-syndikat.de/bmwsyndik...BMW_-_E36.html
What America got instead wasn't that bad at all, IMHO I think it was even better than the M3 GT.
America got the M3 CSL or also called Lightweight, avaiable only in Alpine white with M-color sticker stripes on it.
It had so many remarkeable things I'm to lazy to type them all in here so I just give you a link.
http://www.qv500.com/bmwe36m3p3.php
only thing what I think it's weird that it hasn't got the real M3 seats from the coupe with the headrests which give the seats a bucket-seat like look :-/
The Lightweight, the GT and the GT2 Evo share the same bodykit, so you can tell alone by the color which is which
Last edited by tobibeck80; Jun 7, 2010 at 09:03 PM.
