Another blow for Toyota/Lexus ?
Where's that great Japanese quality at again?
Sludge smudges Toyota
Sludge smudges Toyota
Sludge smudges Toyota
Engine problem is latest issue to dent automaker's reputation
Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
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Jeff Meckstroth's dispute with Toyota Motor Corp. might have ended quietly on March 1, 2001, when an arbitration panel unanimously agreed that Toyota was liable for the damage to the engine of his 2-year-old $37,000 Lexus RX300 sport utility vehicle.
Instead, it escalated. As the two Toyota representatives packed up their papers, they referred casually to other, similar cases they were handling. "Then we had our suspicions up that this isn't an unusual case, that Lexus knows about the problem, and has formed a response -- just deny, deny, deny," said Meckstroth, a 47-year-old New Orleans stockbroker. "We decided to sue."
His case mushroomed into a class-action suit representing prior and current owners of nearly 4 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles that may have suffered engine damage due to thickening oil, or sludge. It can accumulate and deprive the engine of necessary lubrication.
Toyota agreed last fall to settle the case but maintains that its engines were not defective. It said the settlement terms mirror a program to reimburse customers for sludge-related engine damage or repairs that it put in place in 2002. A Louisiana state court is expected to approve the settlement this week after a hearing today.
With engine replacements costing as much as $10,000, the final tab could run into the billions. But the damage to Toyota's reputation might be even more costly for the Japanese automaker.
Toyota is not the only automaker that has received complaints from consumers whose engines are damaged by sludge -- and the source of the problem and who bears responsibility are disputed issues.
But the high-profile case is the latest in a series of recalls and other signs suggesting that the Japanese automaker's quality controls aren't foolproof.
"It would be accurate to say that there have been enough issues with Toyota in the past couple of years that they don't have the spotless image they had a couple of years ago," said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, an automotive research Web site.
But he adds that problems at Toyota attract a disproportionate amount of attention because of the automaker's sterling reputation for quality. "Most companies wouldn't get noticed for these problems."
Further complicating matters, sludge issues aren't clear-cut. Excessive heat, sediment, poor oil condition or a combination of those factors may thicken the oil. In engines with very narrow passages, small amounts of sludge may get stuck, causing damage.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group and Volkswagen AG are among the automakers that have faced complaints about engine sludge in their vehicles.
"There are reasons to believe that the engine design could be contributing to it, but there are also reasons to think that lack of maintenance or proper customer care is contributing," Brauer said. "Everything I've read indicates something kind of in between."
Gary Gambel, an attorney at Murphy, Rogers, Sloss & Gambel in New Orleans, argued that Toyota's engines had a defect giving them a propensity to develop sludge.
But "the terms of the settlement and the settlement itself have no finding of defect in the product," Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis said. "They're not saying these engines are predisposed to sludge."
The settlement covers certain model years between 1997 and 2002 for the Toyota Camry, Solara, Avalon, Celica, and Lexus ES300 cars, and the RX300 and Highlander SUVs. The settlement amount "is tailored to what your damages are," Gambel said.
Toyota does not expect the rate at which customers are coming in for engine repairs in those vehicles or for compensation to change as a result of the settlement, Dominicis said.
Toyota remains among the quality leaders by any measure, but some question whether it can continue to grow rapidly and maintain top standards. Its sales targets suggest Toyota may overtake General Motors Corp. to become the world's No. 1 automaker this year.
In a recent interview, Yuki Funo, Toyota's highest-level U.S. Toyota executive, said he thought Toyota had "come through the worst period."
He noted that the company's U.S. recalls were lower last year than in 2005. "We are on the right track to get our arms around this issue, and I think we should see better signs in the future," Funo said.
Most experts say it takes years for brands to lose -- and restore -- their reputations.
"The sludge issue was a significant blow," said Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Toyota's in the position that GM was in back in the 1970s. A lot of people were buying GM products in the '70s because they were GM products, but they had fractures at the edges. It took 15 years before GM started to suffer from that long-term negative word-of-mouth."
At Toyota, he said, "it's going to hurt them if they don't turn it around."
Engine problem is latest issue to dent automaker's reputation
Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
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NEW! Get text alerts on your cell phone
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Jeff Meckstroth's dispute with Toyota Motor Corp. might have ended quietly on March 1, 2001, when an arbitration panel unanimously agreed that Toyota was liable for the damage to the engine of his 2-year-old $37,000 Lexus RX300 sport utility vehicle.
Instead, it escalated. As the two Toyota representatives packed up their papers, they referred casually to other, similar cases they were handling. "Then we had our suspicions up that this isn't an unusual case, that Lexus knows about the problem, and has formed a response -- just deny, deny, deny," said Meckstroth, a 47-year-old New Orleans stockbroker. "We decided to sue."
His case mushroomed into a class-action suit representing prior and current owners of nearly 4 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles that may have suffered engine damage due to thickening oil, or sludge. It can accumulate and deprive the engine of necessary lubrication.
Toyota agreed last fall to settle the case but maintains that its engines were not defective. It said the settlement terms mirror a program to reimburse customers for sludge-related engine damage or repairs that it put in place in 2002. A Louisiana state court is expected to approve the settlement this week after a hearing today.
With engine replacements costing as much as $10,000, the final tab could run into the billions. But the damage to Toyota's reputation might be even more costly for the Japanese automaker.
Toyota is not the only automaker that has received complaints from consumers whose engines are damaged by sludge -- and the source of the problem and who bears responsibility are disputed issues.
But the high-profile case is the latest in a series of recalls and other signs suggesting that the Japanese automaker's quality controls aren't foolproof.
"It would be accurate to say that there have been enough issues with Toyota in the past couple of years that they don't have the spotless image they had a couple of years ago," said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, an automotive research Web site.
But he adds that problems at Toyota attract a disproportionate amount of attention because of the automaker's sterling reputation for quality. "Most companies wouldn't get noticed for these problems."
Further complicating matters, sludge issues aren't clear-cut. Excessive heat, sediment, poor oil condition or a combination of those factors may thicken the oil. In engines with very narrow passages, small amounts of sludge may get stuck, causing damage.
DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group and Volkswagen AG are among the automakers that have faced complaints about engine sludge in their vehicles.
"There are reasons to believe that the engine design could be contributing to it, but there are also reasons to think that lack of maintenance or proper customer care is contributing," Brauer said. "Everything I've read indicates something kind of in between."
Gary Gambel, an attorney at Murphy, Rogers, Sloss & Gambel in New Orleans, argued that Toyota's engines had a defect giving them a propensity to develop sludge.
But "the terms of the settlement and the settlement itself have no finding of defect in the product," Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis said. "They're not saying these engines are predisposed to sludge."
The settlement covers certain model years between 1997 and 2002 for the Toyota Camry, Solara, Avalon, Celica, and Lexus ES300 cars, and the RX300 and Highlander SUVs. The settlement amount "is tailored to what your damages are," Gambel said.
Toyota does not expect the rate at which customers are coming in for engine repairs in those vehicles or for compensation to change as a result of the settlement, Dominicis said.
Toyota remains among the quality leaders by any measure, but some question whether it can continue to grow rapidly and maintain top standards. Its sales targets suggest Toyota may overtake General Motors Corp. to become the world's No. 1 automaker this year.
In a recent interview, Yuki Funo, Toyota's highest-level U.S. Toyota executive, said he thought Toyota had "come through the worst period."
He noted that the company's U.S. recalls were lower last year than in 2005. "We are on the right track to get our arms around this issue, and I think we should see better signs in the future," Funo said.
Most experts say it takes years for brands to lose -- and restore -- their reputations.
"The sludge issue was a significant blow," said Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Toyota's in the position that GM was in back in the 1970s. A lot of people were buying GM products in the '70s because they were GM products, but they had fractures at the edges. It took 15 years before GM started to suffer from that long-term negative word-of-mouth."
At Toyota, he said, "it's going to hurt them if they don't turn it around."
Might be good for GM/Ford in the Long Run.
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Full bolt-ons+H/C
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448WHP/420WTQ
Full bolt-ons+H/C
Car Sound Clip & More(W/ Mekanic)
Tuned by Precision Motorsports
of course, it is much more believable that large corporations worth billions of dollars would risk the far reaching damage to their reputations by sneaking in saboteurs into Toyota factories, Than to believe that Toyota is fallible
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this wont make 2 pages
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Floridaracing.org Tenative Schedulealso check out the Auto-x Event Schedule
"I am and what I do are not a taxable commodity for you to use and abuse" - Me
This is my fuck the government movement
Floridaracing.org Tenative Schedulealso check out the Auto-x Event Schedule
"I am and what I do are not a taxable commodity for you to use and abuse" - Me
This is my fuck the government movement
i'm glad we agree..............haha
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Finally!!! I've been preaching this for 2 years. This has been long coming for a while and it is finallly making front page news. For 2 years I've been reading it on the back pages of Automotive News and Dealer News and have been making comments on it, but everyone says I am crazy and just pullin stuff out of my butt and flames everytime I made a comment about it.
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TR's WTR Crew Member #6
TR's WTR Crew Member #6
Finally!!! I've been preaching this for 2 years. This has been long coming for a while and it is finallly making front page news. For 2 years I've been reading it on the back pages of Automotive News and Dealer News and have been making comments on it, but everyone says I am crazy and just pullin stuff out of my butt and flames everytime I made a comment about it.
Also interesting to note, for those who did not read the entire article
The settlement covers certain model years between 1997 and 2002 for the Toyota Camry, Solara, Avalon, Celica, and Lexus ES300 cars, and the RX300 and Highlander SUVs. The settlement amount "is tailored to what your damages are," Gambel said.
You are crazy.
First of all I'm not even going to read it. All I read was "sludge" and "RX300", telling me that people finally started complaining about the 1MZ-FE sludge issues.
First of all, the amount of reported cases was actually only a few, and probably because lack of maintenance and stuff. Yeah, to be safe, RX300 owners (my mom included) got a free ticket so that if the engine DOES sludge up, you get a free engine. Not saying Toyota is infallible, but I'm pretty sure out of all the cars that came from the factory with that engine--ES300, RX300, Camry, Solara, Highlander, Sienna, etc. etc.--only like 1500 actually had that problem worldwide. Dont know, dont care, dont like the engine much anyways. Its not a bad engine at all--its actually a pretty damn good engine.
Canyouheminow dare I enter the realm of daily Dodge product recalls on transmissions, or perhaps the Durangos and Dakotas whos wheels fall the f* off? At least on my car at 100k miles, you can still drive the piss out of it, you just get coolant everywhere (BHG).
First of all I'm not even going to read it. All I read was "sludge" and "RX300", telling me that people finally started complaining about the 1MZ-FE sludge issues.
First of all, the amount of reported cases was actually only a few, and probably because lack of maintenance and stuff. Yeah, to be safe, RX300 owners (my mom included) got a free ticket so that if the engine DOES sludge up, you get a free engine. Not saying Toyota is infallible, but I'm pretty sure out of all the cars that came from the factory with that engine--ES300, RX300, Camry, Solara, Highlander, Sienna, etc. etc.--only like 1500 actually had that problem worldwide. Dont know, dont care, dont like the engine much anyways. Its not a bad engine at all--its actually a pretty damn good engine.
Canyouheminow dare I enter the realm of daily Dodge product recalls on transmissions, or perhaps the Durangos and Dakotas whos wheels fall the f* off? At least on my car at 100k miles, you can still drive the piss out of it, you just get coolant everywhere (BHG).
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ASE: Brakes
Yea..that very well could have been the most retarded idea I've ever heard, but .. do it anyway. -TheShow50h

ASE: Brakes
Yea..that very well could have been the most retarded idea I've ever heard, but .. do it anyway. -TheShow50h



