Ethanol E85
Anyone know if there is E85 available anywhere in Tampa bay?
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want a piece of the yellow car? (buy it)
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and then you have to take on the IV
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want a piece of the yellow car? (buy it)
you have to beat the blue car first
and then you have to take on the IV

my favorite quote
"if the solution is simple, God is answering"
won't work in your car, reasearch it first
www.e85fuel.com
Can a vehicle be converted to operate on E85?
Response:
This is a common question that is asked of the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer. In the strictest sense, yes, a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only could be converted to operate on E85. Realistically, no, a vehicle cannot be converted to operate on E85. Here’s why!
During the 1980s and early 1990s, many small companies were formed that were altering gasoline powered vehicles to operate on other forms of fuels such as propane, compressed natural gas, 85 percent ethanol, and 85 percent methanol. The marketing program of these conversion companies was based on the premise that it was cheaper to operate a vehicle on alternative fuels. However, the vehicles being converted were engineered, designed and built to operate on unleaded only. Shortly after the emergence of the “conversion firms” the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) determined that when converted from gasoline to another form of fuel, the exhaust emissions from these converted vehicles were often much “dirtier” than prior to conversion. See explanation regarding EPA Memo 1A. The use of alternative fuels in the transportation sector has been built around the objectives of using cleaner, non-gasoline based components.
Based on the federal authority provided to the EPA through the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990, the EPA implemented regulations that required the exhaust emissions from vehicles converted to run on alternative fuels be “as clean as the exhaust emissions of the original gasoline equipment.” That is, if Ford Motor Company manufactured a vehicle to meet federal emissions standards on gasoline, a company converting that vehicle to operate on propane, must be able to certify that the emissions from the converted vehicle was as good as the original. A process to certify such aftermarket equipment was initiated and ultimately, few if any conversion kits were able to qualify.
Today, 99.9 percent of the vehicles that are capable of operating on alternative transportation fuels are produced by the original equipment manufacturers such as Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler. Engineers from these companies are able to design and build vehicles that meet the EPA exhaust emission standards. These companies also are required to warranty the exhaust emissions from these vehicles for 10 years or 100,000 miles, something very few conversion companies are able to accomplish.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO CONVERT A VEHICLE THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR GASOLINE TO OPERATE ON E85?
Yes. However, there are no conversions or aftermarket parts that have been certified by the EPA as meeting the standards to maintain clean exhaust emissions. Technically speaking, converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties. No aftermarket conversion company has taken the initiative to certify an E85 kit that would allow a gasoline vehicle to operate on 85 percent ethanol.
The differences in fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex. Additionally, the production of vehicles by auto manufacturers that are capable of operating on unleaded gasoline or E85 (flexible fuel vehicles) at little or no additional cost over the gasoline only model, provide little incentive for a conversion company to undertake the very expensive and time consuming task of aftermarket certification.
U.S. Department of Energy - Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Clean Cities - Alternative Fuels Data Center
A History of Memorandum 1A
In June 1974 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum 1A (Memo 1A). The original purpose of Memo 1A was to enforce the tampering prohibitions under Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act with respect to maintenance and use of aftermarket parts. Memo 1A and its subsequent revisions also outline procedures for converting vehicles to operate on alternative fuels while still complying with the Clean Air Act's tampering prohibitions and ensuring that emissions are not degraded through the conversion process. Below is a timeline and information about subsequent revisions to Memo 1A.
In the mid 1990s, testing determined that some vehicles that had been converted to operate on alternative fuels, specifically propane and natural gas, produced emissions that were worse than those of baseline gasoline vehicles. EPA issued an Addendum to Memorandum 1A in September 1997, requiring more stringent emissions testing for alternative fuel vehicle (AFV) conversions. The addendum specified three options through which a manufacturer can demonstrate that it has a "reasonable basis" to believe that its aftermarket part, vehicle add-on, or alteration to the vehicle would not adversely affect vehicle emissions performance. In order to promote initial growth of the alternative fuels industry, Option 3 outlined less stringent requirements than obtaining a Federal Certificate of Conformity required under Option 1 or the California Air Resources Board retrofit system certification required under Option 2.
Due to comments received from industry and concerns about the testing process and timeline, EPA issued a Revision to the Addendum to Memo 1A in June 1998. The revision clarified certain points and extended the timeline for performing conversions according to the guidelines specified under Option 3 to June 30, 2000. Additional concerns from the small alternative fuels industry related to the costs of "full certification" under Options 1 and 2 led to another extension of Option 3, which was issued in May 2000 and extended the deadline for performing conversions without full certification to December 31, 2001. Finally, on January 24, 2002, EPA extended Option 3 through March 31, 2002 in order to allow time for a new set of certification procedures for fuels converters to be fully developed by EPA.
Following these three extensions, Option 3 of the addendum to Memo 1A officially expired on March 31, 2002. Option 3 had permitted the use of alternative fuel conversion systems or "kits," which were designed for specific engine families, provided that the aftermarket conversion company performed satisfactory emission testing demonstrating that the converted vehicles conformed with EPA emissions standards. Options 1 and 2 remain in effect, and EPA now certifies converted vehicles, rather than conversion systems or "kits." For more information about current conversion certification procedures, please see Conversions 101.
Response:
This is a common question that is asked of the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer. In the strictest sense, yes, a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only could be converted to operate on E85. Realistically, no, a vehicle cannot be converted to operate on E85. Here’s why!
During the 1980s and early 1990s, many small companies were formed that were altering gasoline powered vehicles to operate on other forms of fuels such as propane, compressed natural gas, 85 percent ethanol, and 85 percent methanol. The marketing program of these conversion companies was based on the premise that it was cheaper to operate a vehicle on alternative fuels. However, the vehicles being converted were engineered, designed and built to operate on unleaded only. Shortly after the emergence of the “conversion firms” the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) determined that when converted from gasoline to another form of fuel, the exhaust emissions from these converted vehicles were often much “dirtier” than prior to conversion. See explanation regarding EPA Memo 1A. The use of alternative fuels in the transportation sector has been built around the objectives of using cleaner, non-gasoline based components.
Based on the federal authority provided to the EPA through the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990, the EPA implemented regulations that required the exhaust emissions from vehicles converted to run on alternative fuels be “as clean as the exhaust emissions of the original gasoline equipment.” That is, if Ford Motor Company manufactured a vehicle to meet federal emissions standards on gasoline, a company converting that vehicle to operate on propane, must be able to certify that the emissions from the converted vehicle was as good as the original. A process to certify such aftermarket equipment was initiated and ultimately, few if any conversion kits were able to qualify.
Today, 99.9 percent of the vehicles that are capable of operating on alternative transportation fuels are produced by the original equipment manufacturers such as Ford, General Motors, and DaimlerChrysler. Engineers from these companies are able to design and build vehicles that meet the EPA exhaust emission standards. These companies also are required to warranty the exhaust emissions from these vehicles for 10 years or 100,000 miles, something very few conversion companies are able to accomplish.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO CONVERT A VEHICLE THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR GASOLINE TO OPERATE ON E85?
Yes. However, there are no conversions or aftermarket parts that have been certified by the EPA as meeting the standards to maintain clean exhaust emissions. Technically speaking, converting a vehicle that was designed to operate on unleaded gasoline only to operate on another form of fuel is a violation of the federal law and the offender may be subject to significant penalties. No aftermarket conversion company has taken the initiative to certify an E85 kit that would allow a gasoline vehicle to operate on 85 percent ethanol.
The differences in fuel injector size, air-fuel ratio, PCM calibrations, material composition of the fuel lines, pumps and tanks are just a few of the components that contribute to making an E85 conversion extremely complex. Additionally, the production of vehicles by auto manufacturers that are capable of operating on unleaded gasoline or E85 (flexible fuel vehicles) at little or no additional cost over the gasoline only model, provide little incentive for a conversion company to undertake the very expensive and time consuming task of aftermarket certification.
U.S. Department of Energy - Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Clean Cities - Alternative Fuels Data Center
A History of Memorandum 1A
In June 1974 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum 1A (Memo 1A). The original purpose of Memo 1A was to enforce the tampering prohibitions under Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act with respect to maintenance and use of aftermarket parts. Memo 1A and its subsequent revisions also outline procedures for converting vehicles to operate on alternative fuels while still complying with the Clean Air Act's tampering prohibitions and ensuring that emissions are not degraded through the conversion process. Below is a timeline and information about subsequent revisions to Memo 1A.
In the mid 1990s, testing determined that some vehicles that had been converted to operate on alternative fuels, specifically propane and natural gas, produced emissions that were worse than those of baseline gasoline vehicles. EPA issued an Addendum to Memorandum 1A in September 1997, requiring more stringent emissions testing for alternative fuel vehicle (AFV) conversions. The addendum specified three options through which a manufacturer can demonstrate that it has a "reasonable basis" to believe that its aftermarket part, vehicle add-on, or alteration to the vehicle would not adversely affect vehicle emissions performance. In order to promote initial growth of the alternative fuels industry, Option 3 outlined less stringent requirements than obtaining a Federal Certificate of Conformity required under Option 1 or the California Air Resources Board retrofit system certification required under Option 2.
Due to comments received from industry and concerns about the testing process and timeline, EPA issued a Revision to the Addendum to Memo 1A in June 1998. The revision clarified certain points and extended the timeline for performing conversions according to the guidelines specified under Option 3 to June 30, 2000. Additional concerns from the small alternative fuels industry related to the costs of "full certification" under Options 1 and 2 led to another extension of Option 3, which was issued in May 2000 and extended the deadline for performing conversions without full certification to December 31, 2001. Finally, on January 24, 2002, EPA extended Option 3 through March 31, 2002 in order to allow time for a new set of certification procedures for fuels converters to be fully developed by EPA.
Following these three extensions, Option 3 of the addendum to Memo 1A officially expired on March 31, 2002. Option 3 had permitted the use of alternative fuel conversion systems or "kits," which were designed for specific engine families, provided that the aftermarket conversion company performed satisfactory emission testing demonstrating that the converted vehicles conformed with EPA emissions standards. Options 1 and 2 remain in effect, and EPA now certifies converted vehicles, rather than conversion systems or "kits." For more information about current conversion certification procedures, please see Conversions 101.
__________________
Okay looks like E85 is not available in florida. Where can I get 100% ethanol?
__________________
want a piece of the yellow car? (buy it)
you have to beat the blue car first
and then you have to take on the IV
my favorite quote
"if the solution is simple, God is answering"
want a piece of the yellow car? (buy it)
you have to beat the blue car first
and then you have to take on the IV

my favorite quote
"if the solution is simple, God is answering"
looks like the govt insured the failure of alternative fuels development
by making it so expensive and complicated.
Crush the independents! Death to the innovators!
-Bob
by making it so expensive and complicated.
Crush the independents! Death to the innovators!
-Bob
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Veterans and Friends on First Saturday...Some pictures....
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Port Richey Rod Run at Coast Buick GMC
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1730 US-19, Holiday Fl 34691 click: https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/t...acing.html CHRA sanctioned cruise-in.
Cruise-In; Free; Every Saturday 5-8PM plus 10% off the whole menu to cruisers
50's Diner pictures are here: https://carstoshow.com/eventdetails.aspx?eventid=93194
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Tampa Racing.com covers the Tampa car scene and supports many fund raisers, worthy causes and events that enrich our community. We hope you enjoy them all.
What do I do? ---- on-site *Aftermarket* spring/suspension installations --- on-site impact wrenching---street lowering with your own stock springs...........True Bi-xenon HID projector headlight conversions........ Much more at Bob's Garage!
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...ontact-us.html
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...e-senor-honda/
Here is the listings of ALL New Mexico Car Events Including Route 66 Anniversary
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/t...ar-events.html
Top Car Club Meetings? Click a city
Got a video? Email it to Bobfixesitup@yahoo.com
________________________________________________
Keystone Motor Club (Founded 2012)... Free car show Every 3rd Saturday, newsletter is
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/e...-car-club.html
Keystone picture gallery is here:
https://carstoshow.com/eventdetails.aspx?eventid=93202
Veterans and Friends on First Saturday...Some pictures....
https://carstoshow.com/registerevent...eventid=102331
Port Richey Rod Run at Coast Buick GMC
https://carstoshow.com/registerevent.aspx?eventid=99114
50's Diner US19.... A Florida Attraction.
1730 US-19, Holiday Fl 34691 click: https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/t...acing.html CHRA sanctioned cruise-in.
Cruise-In; Free; Every Saturday 5-8PM plus 10% off the whole menu to cruisers
50's Diner pictures are here: https://carstoshow.com/eventdetails.aspx?eventid=93194
All Cars Every 2nd Saturday Free Breakfast: Since 2015 and more. click: https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/e...ast-tampa.html
Tampa Racing.com covers the Tampa car scene and supports many fund raisers, worthy causes and events that enrich our community. We hope you enjoy them all.
What do I do? ---- on-site *Aftermarket* spring/suspension installations --- on-site impact wrenching---street lowering with your own stock springs...........True Bi-xenon HID projector headlight conversions........ Much more at Bob's Garage!
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...ontact-us.html
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...e-senor-honda/
Just run your car on strait acetone, its cheaper
Hey it would work.... for a while.
Hey it would work.... for a while.
If gas prices continue to rise over the summer I would almost bet that you'll see an adjustment to these. If you think about it, the changes that are made (other than the lines and tank) are something most of us do when modifying a vehicle anyway (for performance reasons) although not entirely required (on turbomustangs.com there is a guy who has been running it for 9 months with no issues and made over 1000hp to the wheels on it). The issue is, we need to have companies other than the BIG OIL companies provide us with these alternatives, if Exxon, BP, etc are the ones to "help us out", nothing will come of it as they will find a way to rape us with E85 as they do oil. The nice thing about e85 is that in order to "produce" it, you don't need a multi-million dollar drilling rig, the refining of it is the issue. However, I think the more people ask/talk/push for it the better it is, it's not much cheaper (if any), but it's replenishable and local which are two HUGE benefits.
__________________
I am your penalty.....
I am your penalty.....
also ups the octane, i would definately do the conversion, and if we get the heavy oil from canada that will require alot of refinement too, but its refinement of a home grown product that would realy up business for farmers
so more jobs, less foreign dependance, higher octane at a comperable price
big oil still wants to sell oil though, and the govt is up big oil's butt so...
so more jobs, less foreign dependance, higher octane at a comperable price
big oil still wants to sell oil though, and the govt is up big oil's butt so...
__________________
I was watching the Daily Show with john Stewart...bare with me now people...and one of his guest said E85 is just an addative to gas/oil...so its not really a solution..its like 30% E85(whatever the percent is) and the rest is plain gas...Not sure if this is correct but i herd it with my own ears
__________________
L-O-V-E L-I-F-E
L-O-V-E L-I-F-E
Originally Posted by RSXTC
I was watching the Daily Show with john Stewart...bare with me now people...and one of his guest said E85 is just an addative to gas/oil...so its not really a solution..its like 30% E85(whatever the percent is) and the rest is plain gas...Not sure if this is correct but i herd it with my own ears


