2.65 to 3.06 215mm upgrade

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

01-31-2019, 12:39 AM

#1 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

2.65 to 3.06 215mm upgrade

luckynumber13
Junior Member

Join Date: Sep 2016Posts: 6

2.65 to 3.06 215mm upgradeHello Everyone,
Name is Tony and although I'm not "new" to the forums in the sense of looking for good information, this is my first post.

Question I have is this: I have a 2013 Charger Pursuit with the 5.7. It has a 215mm rear axle. I've been wanting to switch the rear end on the car. However it has been quite confusing with what my options are. What I'm leaning towards, if possible is this: It is a daily driver and I'm not looking at breaking the bank, would I be able to get a 3.06 215mm open rear pumpkin (for lack of better word) from lets say a 20xx charger or challenger? Would it also be able to bolt right into my already-in-car axle shafts and all that jazz?

A getrag rear end with lower gearing would be awesome, but from the looks of it, I would need the rear end, new axle shafts, and a few other things. The added cost of everything unfortunately is not in my price range...

Thanks in advance,
Tony

__________________
Keystone Motor Club (Founded 2012)... Free car show Every 3rd Saturday, newsletter is
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/e...-car-club.html
Keystone Facebook ...click: "Keystone Motor Car Club"

Port Richey Rod Run at Coast Buick GMC Coming May 25 2024
https://carstoshow.com/registerevent.aspx?eventid=99114

50's Diner US19.... A Florida Attraction.
1730 US-19, Holiday Fl 34691 click: https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/t...-racing.html CHRA sanctioned cruise-in.
Cruise-In; Free; Every Saturday 5-8PM plus 10% off the whole menu to cruisers

All Cars Every 2nd Saturday Free Breakfast: Since 2015 and more. click: https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/e...ast-tampa.html

Tampa Racing.com covers the Tampa car scene and supports many fund raisers, worthy causes and events that enrich our community. We hope you enjoy them all.
What do I do? ---- on-site *Aftermarket* spring/suspension installations --- on-site impact wrenching---street lowering with your own stock springs...........True Bi-xenon HID projector headlight conversions........ Much more at Bob's Garage!
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...ontact-us.html
https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/b...e-senor-honda/

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:40 AM

#2 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

tacamo01
Supporting Member (Lifetime)

Join Date: Apr 2013Posts: 2,506

You are right about the Getrag. A whole list of things to get along with the larger 226mm axles. You can get the open 3.06 diff from a 2011 to 2014 and it will bolt right up. However, you will need a tuner to program the TCM for the new 3.06 diff. Hit and miss with Diablo. It seems to work for some and not so for others. If it does not work you will need to send in your TCM to get it programmed. Less and less people have reported problems lately though so maybe the new software updates are working better than in the past.

If you do the swap make sure you get new axles seals (Close to the differential) when you do the install.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:41 AM

#3 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

DarrellM
Member

Join Date: Nov 2016Location: Chesapeake, VirginiaPosts: 30

I found a 3.06 on Ebay for about $175. I matched the part numbers to make sure I was getting the correct and matching unit. Once I received it I had it checked out by a transmission shop near me and it was in good shape, good seals too. I priced a new one and Mopar wanted $4K (insane). I have a Diablo intune2 tuner and it has the 3.06 differential tuning option, so once I swap I can switch to the 3.06.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:42 AM

#4 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

Originally Posted by tacamo01
You are right about the Getrag. A whole list of things to get along with the larger 226mm axles. You can get the open 3.06 diff from a 2011 to 2014 and it will bolt right up. However, you will need a tuner to program the TCM for the new 3.06 diff. Hit and miss with Diablo. It seems to work for some and not so for others. If it does not work you will need to send in your TCM to get it programmed. Less and less people have reported problems lately though so maybe the new software updates are working better than in the past.

If you do the swap make sure you get new axles seals (Close to the differential) when you do the install.

-----------------------------------------------

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:44 AM

#5 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

tacamo01
Supporting Member (Lifetime)

Join Date: Apr 2013Posts: 2,506

On the older chargers 2014 and below the speed sensor is located in the rear. Any change in the differential gears will alter the speed and will force the transmission to go into limp mode or only allow 1st and 2nd gears to work without a TCM reprogram for the correct gears. The newer models have the speed sensor located in the front and also there is more

programming of the transmission done by the PCM and not the TCM. No programming needed for the 2015+ chargers when changing out the diff. Just swap and go.

Open diff is just another term for peg leg. One rear tire will hold "most" of the time and leave a single tire patch when going WOT from a stop.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:46 AM

#6 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

I'm not familiar with the terminology.
What is an "open" differential?
What is and what does the TCM do? Compensate the speedometer for a different gear ratio?
-----------------
Related to cost?
Recycler junk yards probably sell stuff based on scrap metal prices instead of MSRP.
-------------
Is bigger diameter axles related to breakage?
What happened in 2014 that changed things?
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------
A very simple way (not very technical but to try and explain) open differential works by only spinning one tire at time, the tire that spins is always the tire with least resistance. a LSD (Limited Slip Differential) often called Posi or Trac Loc (depending on who makes it) Applies equal power using a clutch or other type of mechanism to make sure both tires spin

(Hence a two wheel burn out compared to a one wheel peel). Most Chargers are open differential with the exception of some higher end trims with the Getrag differential(such as SRT

. Open differential on our cars will still appear to make two wheel burnouts because the computer in the car will apply braking to the side of least resistance, hence making both tires spin, but it is not a true LSD.

A Transmission Control Module controls engagement and disengagement conditions for each gear and shift pattern along with other transmission related things. That's only the tip of the iceberg of what it does, but explains it in a nutshell.

I am not sure what happened in 2014 that changed things? Maybe it was partly the switch to the 8 speed transmission?

Hope that clears some things up, and is not too long of a winded reply.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:48 AM

#7 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

GertFrobe

Supporting Member (Lifetime)

Join Date: Nov 2015

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 612

Quote:Originally Posted by luckynumber13
Thanks for that information, makes a lot more sense why it needs to be changed by a programmer then. I didn't even know that it was in the rear or that they switched it to the front after 14.

FYI: yes, any rear-end swap will require that the rear-end ratio be updated (with a tuner or similar device) in the car's computer (on the older LXs). However, that is something the service department at any Dodge dealership can easily do if a tuner is not available or within the budget. The dealership option makes the most sense IMHO when the rear-end gear update is the only reason for purchasing a tuner. Save that money and go to the local dealership instead.

Now, I would be remiss if I didn't at least mention the possibility that some dealerships may want to charge much more money to do this tune update than others. So anyone considering this option would do well to call around and get some quotes or unofficial estimates before going to any one in particular. Or even go in person and say you're there for a recall check, and while they're looking at it, mention you'll be swapping out the rear-end soon and ask what it might cost to bring to them for the TCM update.

Hell, he might tell you to come by on a dead afternoon and they'll do it gratis...who knows. But you can bet your bottom dollar that there are some out there that would try to squeeze every last penny out of you for such a non-std. service, and those are the ones you'd obviously want to avoid, if at all possible.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:49 AM

#8 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

Originally Posted by Aqutis

Sigh.... I guess I'll have to go with the 3.06 as well. The 2.65 has got to go lol. Too bad you can't open the diff and change the gears. I'm really wanting 3.55's or 3.73's at most.

There is such a thing as a quick change ratio rear end.
I see them on Rods and race cars at car shows.
A start would be to search i-net.
Jegs, Summit, etc......are selllers. Mfg'ers will know what will fit.

Undo 6 bolts, pull gears out, put gears in, add oil.
Everything is a trade off...time saved is worth something compared to cost of the parts
and two gear sets.

Might check with Don Garlits, Ocala FL...see what he recommends.
He drags mopars.

Reply Like

01-31-2019, 12:51 AM

#9 (permalink)

senor honda

Registered

Thread Starter

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 94,688

Likes: 449

Received 16 Likes on 16 Posts

GertFrobe
Supporting Member (Lifetime)

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 612

Quote:Originally Posted by Aqutis
Sigh.... I guess I'll have to go with the 3.06 as well. The 2.65 has got to go lol. Too bad you can't open the diff and change the gears. I'm really wanting 3.55's or 3.73's at most.
----------------------------------------------------------------

That is absolutely possible, but not feasible or practical in your case since you are starting out with the wrong pumpkin (and axles, hubs, etc.). There are places that sell the gears such as you mention, but you would not be able to swap them into your pumpkin (that I know of,

someone correct me if I am wrong). You would need a LSD pumpkin to allow the gears to swap in. But to get that, you would still have to go to the trouble of the LSD swap out, and if you're going to do that, why not just get the lower greared version you wanted then and skip trying to replace the gears later.

If yours came from the factory with an LSD, then you'd be golden. Save up a few thousand bucks, buy the gears you want, swap them out.

It's the crappiest kind of a catch-22 you can encounter with these cars, isn't it...