chet

i agree with jesse.

Loren

Dude, your logic is severely flawed. Just driving across town on ANY road at legal speeds is more likely to get your car totalled than autocrossing it. Remember, there are STUPID PEOPLE out on public roads. And you're talking about RACING across town at speeds in excess of 100 mph? A well-designed autocross course with nothing moving on it but YOU and nothing to hit but a bunch of rubber cones is infinitely safer. And if you take a poll of the few who have wrecked cars at autocrosses, you'll find that most will admit that they could have avoided it with a little common sense. Just like street driving... stupidity can still bite you in the ass.

Reality check: Who do you know personally who has totalled a car at an autocross?

Further reality check: I've only been in the area about 6 months, who can tell me how many cars have been totalled (or even significantly damaged) at autocrosses here in the past few years? I'm guessing not very many. It just doesn't happen that often.

So... quit teasing the little Honda with the obvious fact* that your Camaro has a higher top speed and come out and show him that you're not afraid to get spanked on an autocross course. What's that you say? Oh, you CAN beat him on an autocross course? Well, bring it on! We can all handle the truth... whatever it might be.

* Amusing anecdote: I was in a caravan of SCCA dudes headed to an autocross once and experienced the joy of leaving a 5.7 powered Camaro behind in my bone stock Saturn SC2. It seems that this Camaro was ordered with the cheaper tire option, thus had the 115mph speed limiter! The SC2 was good to 125... eventually.

0HP930

This from the man who never dares go to an auto-x without his race compound tires.

I'm pretty sure this was also the case before you did anything to your own suspension.

Tires alone make the difference between my car barely winning or barely losing.

accord95

thanks guys for all the input

97blkz, im not talkin about you, im talkin about my other friend who also has a 97 black z28.

one more question???? so weight is not really a factor in auto-x?

i thought weight would be more of a factor in this than drag.

also, lets say we both have the same HP/weight ratio. an analogy would be, lets say my car is a f150 pickup and his car is a school bus. even though he has more HP, im going to beat the school bus on an auto-cross track because of less curb weight, less turning radius, ect.

it just seems to me like theres no way a school bus could take a turn as fast as the truck. just like theres no way a heavy ass camaro is going to be able to take a turn a quick as a CRX, hell i can pick up the back of the car by myself.

the only true way to tell is the track, and my friend takes this shit so seriously that he's pissed at me for asking you guys if his car is good at autocross. he's the type of person that if i ever beat him, he would never talk to me again. too much pride to ever admit he may be wrong.

Loren

Weight is very important, this is why they say "weight is king". And, all else being equal, a lighter car is going to do everything better than a heavier car. That is: It will accelerate, turn, transition and brake better than a heavier car.

Note that I said "all else being equal". It is not.

- The Camaro has a lot more power, so it can make up for some of its shortcomings in any place it can put down some power.
- The Camaro is RWD, which allows the driver to get on the gas earlier when exiting a turn making even more use of available power.
- The Camaro has a lot wider tires, which will help it to corner nearly as well as the Honda.
- The Camaro is wider, wider track lowers the effective roll center, which again will help it to corner better.

In stock form, with equal (top-notch, National-level) drivers, proper setup and fresh autocross tires, the Camaro should normally be the faster autocrosser. (F Stock is a faster class than H Stock... or is the CRX in D Stock? F Stock is still faster.) But if you trick both cars out to full Street Prepared specs, the CRX will normally be a little quicker except on courses with long straights. (CSP is a slightly faster class than ESP)

To simplify: Just because car A is lighter than car B doesn't mean it will be faster because there are too many other variables. BUT... if car A goes on a diet and loses 100 lbs, it will without question be faster than it was before. Weight is king. (but unpainted CF hoods are still rice )

Test: Have a good consistent autocross driver take two runs in a car with an average weight passenger, get a good baseline time. Kick the passenger's fat butt out and let the same driver take another run. Assuming none of the runs were botched, you're guaranteed to see a minimum .5 second difference.


Post edited for bad English and poor proofreading.

PseudoRealityX

I disagree with the passanger difference. .5 seconds for ~150 lb person? No WAY! With a really light car, maybe...but I'll still doubt it. Ive ridden with good National drivers in Miatas, and they've thrown down their fastest runs with my 200 lbs in the car.

FWIW, CRXs are in G-stock....and they are STILL slower than F-stock.

To accord95vtec, Autocross is driver and course dependent more than anything else.

97blkz

loren you think you know all but please consider this fact, I do insurance for a living, my point being no Ins co will cover your car for sanctioned racing , so your car is sol if you do an auto x course. now if I am racing to St Pete and hit the wall Im still covered and get my $ back ! so who has the retarted logic???

Tits McGee

I've been to many autox's......and I've never seen one single person damage their car mechanically in ANY way. Only thing I've seen is tires damaged, and someone's front bumper came off cause it was half way hanging off when they started.

Loren

Look, I don't think I know all. I know that most (not all, because I do know of claims being paid for autocross damage) insurance companies will not readily cover damage incurred at an autocross.

What I said was that it is very highly unlikely that you will receive any damage to your car at an autocross.

Obviously, you're more concerned about your money and your car than your life or some other innocent person's life. Therein lies the flaw in your logic.

Leonard

Personally, I think your justification for racing on the street is way off base... yes, you may be better covered by your insurance company, but you're also risking tickets, property damage, and possibly even injuring or killing somebody because you're doing stupid stuff in an uncontrolled environment.

When I run an SCCA sanctioned event, I'm competing with several million dollars in liability coverage. The most damage i've ever seen done to a car at an event was a dent in the door from the timing box and that almost exclusively happens because somebody is overdriving...

I'll risk a couple hundred dollar bill to fix a door to compete in a safe environment. When you're in jail for vehicular manslaughter, you'll know i was right...