squeezing out power (Rex)
 

A question to all owners and prior owners of EJ20 powerplant subies; if you had a 3k budget to go straight to power, what would you buy? I know this car isn't all about the straights, but with the curves aside, how would you spend the dough? I'm kindof in a middleground here, there's only so much you can do with the stock turbo and TMIC.

I would consider the Stage 1 Vishnu setup($2495) or the Stage 2 from TurboXS($2099) if you looking for a quality proven safe and realiable solution. If I'm not mistaken both of these stages build on to the stock turbo/intercooler setup.

You could also potentialy build your own stage kit possibly saving some money there and have Mastro Subaru in Tampa dyno tune your specific setup using the ECUTEK reflash system.

I think you're going to have a hard time upgrading the turbo and intercool with a $3000.00 budget considering:

$1000.00 Turbo upgrade
$1000.00 Intercooler
$500.00 Injectors
$150.00 Fuel Pump
$1000.00 ECU
$???.?? Uppipe/Downpipe
$???.?? Gauges
$???.?? Installation

I would probably do exhaust first, then depending on the power you wanted to make either clip the turbo or do an intercooler, bost controller...etc. , etc,......

**wow, that pretty much follows what I did, just leaving out some other goodies for the suspension here and there :lol:**

Some #'s of mods i was looking at:

Greddy Gauges ~$400
Invidia Helix Downpipe ~$300
Catback ~$500
Up-pipe ~$150
AEM Short Ram intake ~$160
Samco TMIC hoses ~$130
Hyper Ground wires ~$100
Pulley kit ~$200
IHI VF22 ~$750
STI injectors ~$375
Walhboro Fuel Pump ~$100
MRT fuel rail ~$350
NX N-intercooler chiller ~$500+refills
Greddy FMIC ~$875
Cobb AccessECU ~$500
EcuTek DeltaDash combo~$1000

*plus tax/shipping/install

Which combination would be the most powerful yet reliable? Yeah, i was looking into the power packages at Vishnu, just seems like you could have parts installed for cheaper though.

forgot to mention an upgraded TMIC to the list
i'd say it would cost ~$800

If you really think about it, the turbo back exhaust ,up-pipe, and gauges are givens so this post is really asking what do you do with the ~$1500 after that. The last couple of weeks i've been reading alot on how you guys regret buying intakes and pulleys so i'm wondering where you go from here.

AccessECU and a FMIC?
intercooler hoses, intake, pulleys, ground wires, AccessECU?
intercooler hoses, spray kit, mod the intake, and DeltaDash combo?

Ok, throw out the larger injectors, fuel pump, fuel rails and front mount unless you plan on doing a turbo upgrade.

If you do a larger intercooler it will more then likely come with the hoses for it (MRT, APS, etc. all do)

The intake is a waste of money, I woudn't buy one if I had it to do over again ( I have one).

And the pulleys....I've heard mixed results on them, about being safe, etc. For the performance gain, it isn't worth the risk of putting them on...but hey, thats just me.

so you would go with the an upgraded top mount and get an AccessECU?

Would it be better to get an upgraded top mount over a front mount if you were sticking with the stock turbo? I mean, the top mount is way smaller and isn't gonna see near as much cold air. Even if the front mount has all that piping.

Has anyone researched that comparison? Assuming there was engine management of course.

If you are going to stick with the stock turbo, then yes I would stay with the top mount. Tuning isn't going to make up for the fact that you wont be flowing enough air to make use of that front mount.

I know of alot of people using aftermarket turbos that are still running a top mount. It all depends on what your plans for the car are going to be. You need to address that question first before you start modding.

from what i've heard a new intercooler isn't necessary until you start getting some real numbers, like aroun 320 at the crank. This was via a turbo xs faq I read awhile back. The vf22 is a nice turbo. It's bb and has really good top end. However I don't know where you'll get one for 750, mine new was 1,000 and that was cheap from what i've seen them go for. I would say go for this....uppipe, downpipe, exhaust. and then get I think ECUtek and have mastro tune it on their dyno. I'm not sure what ecu's they tune, but it's either ecutek or something like that. With all that done you will have enough $$$ left over for a lightened flywheel and a new clutch. I know the flywheel was probably the most responsive mod i've ever bought for my car.

or you could go the another route and get full exhaust, fuel pump, injectors and some nitrous.

there's tons of options, just look around on the impreza forums for info on what ppl have blown their motors running and you'll get an idea on what NOT to do. Have fun!

i'll reply to this tomorrow.. but some of you are wasting your cash.. lol. on ricey crappy stuff that doesnt do squat..

You're not going to see much if any gains from just upgrading the intecooler w/o some type of engine management. I think this is one of the articles that details this:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=1054

After talking to some people i think the best bang for the buck setup for 3k is gonna be the following:

turbo back exhaust $760
up-pipe $140
intercooler hoses $130
air filter element $ 50
IHI VF34 or VF22 $995 or $750
Cobb AccessEcu $500

total $2575 or $2330 + shipping/install/tune

I figure that the upgraded turbo would help even with the low boost levels since the larger turbo would produce less heat and hold boost till redline. I'm also a big fan of EcuTek but for the money i don't think i can afford it.

Opinions?
By the way, most of the prices are coming from Gruppe-S online, that's where the $750 VF22 price is from.

I think you have yourself a good list of mods for the most part. The one problem I see is that you don't list injectors/fuel pump on your list. You really should have these installed if you plan to upgrade the turbo otherwise you are going to be pushing the saftey limit even running below the OE boost levels with a upgraded turbo. I would leave the intercooler hoses and filter off and spend that money towards the fuel pump and injectors. You may also want to contact Cobb and verify that they have a generic map that will work with those mods. Keep us posted.

Are you doing the install yourself?

I have to agree with Luke on his feelings. If you are looking at Gruppe-S for pricing they have the best price on STi injectors that I have found...$375. Plus, check with Mastro on some pricing for the fule pump and turbo. If you like the VF34 but are willing to give up the bal bearings, Mastro has 2 VF30 turbos that they are willing to part with for around $800.

Just some things to keep in mind.

i can see what your saying about the fuel management, i thought if i was running 15 psi on the upgraded turbo it might not be needed.
After you said that, what i noticed is that i'm basically trying to do a Vishnu stage 2 setup, but swapping the pulley for the filter. Vishnu's package price would be $4700 though.
I'll get back to you guys on this post once i hear anything.
Thanks guys

3 questions:

Can you even install sti injectors into the stock fuel rails?

Will this setup result in the leaning out of cylinder #3 or is that problem been seen in cases with larger boost levels?

Have any of you heard of problems with up-pipes/downpipes that dont' have flex joints (like cracks and shit)?

About half of the stuff me and my friends will probably install, for the difficult stuff i'll probably hit up mastro or another tampa race shop. If any of you are interested, maybe when the time comes i'll pay you guys to the do the install and i'll help. This stuff shouldn't be that difficult.

1) Yes

2) It has been seen at all levels of modification from stock to whatever. But, fuel rails can help with the problem

3) Yes, the stock Up-pipe has a flex joint if that makes your decision any eaiser.

This is what I meant about the stock uppipe...don't mind the bottom picture

http://www.mattrandolph.com/wrx/uppi...s/uppipe36.jpg

i'm not gonna add up to $3K or what ever .. but for me.. it goes liek this..

Scooby Sport full exhaust..
Used STI TMIC
SR-40
550cc injectors
Fuel Pump
MRT Grp A Ram-Pod
engine/tranny mounts
short shifter
I'd like to say Apexi Power FC + Commander + Delta Dash + Boost Control Module.. but your lookin at about 2K for that alone (by FAR the best engine managment out there around $1000)
slap it all on and Road Tune yourself using Commander and Delta Dash.. will make for a car with TONS of low end torque and pull up top ..

I'd slap a water spray unit on it too.. and run about 22 psi of boost.. not a problem.. coudl run up to about 24-26 with water injection.

Thats basically how it will be when i build the L ;)

after that i'd go heads.. cams.. 2.5L closed deck block and SR-50 and 24 psi = over 500 HP :)

oh yeah.. be in the need for a better tranny by then.. LOL.. definately.

anyhow.. your $3K thing is up the top.. just put in ECUTek instead of PowerFC.

:lol: That's not fair, the first 6 things alone on your list are like 5 grand. Suprised you picked the intake over the up-pipe though.

I don't know now, i feel like i'm right back where i started. Doesn't seem like there is a middle ground, you either break 3k by a long shot or you leave so much room for improvement. That is unless you could strap on that vf34 without fuel upgrades....you guys sure about that? :(

Why would 15-16psi on the stock turbo not warrant fuel upgrades but 15 psi on a vf34 does? A tad confused.

I think when it's all said and done i won't be replacing the turbo or tmic after all. :(

Well if it helps any I will tell you what I have done.
Snorkel mod to stock intake (FREE)
MRT turboback exhaust (1200)
MRT up pipe w/ flex (340 +install)
White line adjustable rear sway bar (145)
Perrin end links (160)
GFB B.O.V. (150)
Those mods and some good wheels and tires will eat up 3K rather easily.

-Im going to be ordering the AccesECU from Cobb as soon as I can be w/o my car for a couple days...with my mods and the AccessECU Cobb claims 285 crank HP...60+HP and Torque over stock is pretty solid. This combination should be good to mid to low 13's.

The reason you need to upgrade the fuel system is because you will be flowing more air at 15 psi with the VF34 as opposed to the stock turbo.....more air means more fuel.


And...Rocky's (Clubert Jones) mods are a good way for you to go. It won't break the bank and I think you will be very happy with what you get. There is alot of room for improvement while using the stock turbo and intercooler, so why not use them for as long as possible. :?

I agree and I would forget the whole turbo, intercooler, fuel system upgrade for now and start with the basic stuff like uppipe, downpipe, ECU reflash route. I don't think you will be disapointed with the results at this point of upgrades.

Once you're at that stage and everything is running good and solid w/o any problems you can start thinking about doing the whole turbo upgrade path.

Yup, wise words.....:)

Thanks alot for the help guys, i'll be sure to let you know how things are progressing.