williamb82 your right there's a bunch of other cars that in stock form have better performance than the mk4 and for someone who's not really into supras they are good choices, and your right with a mk4 you are getting a used car for the price of a new one. but us supra guys dont care bout that there's really no other car i want besides a 73 corolla and every other toyota ever made lol. I like the new 5.0 mustang myself but i doubt it could take on the mk4 in handling with its live rear axle vs the mk4s front+rear independent wishbone suspension. also the lexus is a great car but its worht 50K+