Welded Center Diff vs Viscious Coupling
i cant seem to find any info on viscious couplings, but i have read a little about welded diff's, and cheapest one i have found is 300(from buschur) i was just curious as to what i should do, i hear welded diffs makes the tranny a little weaker..but i have no pro's or cons about the coupling, any insight would be helpful. i figure if i gotta pull the tranny off to do this i might wait and just save some money and build it up.
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...

ok here is a question that is worth asking!!
The welded center diff is strong, i have heard of people breaking speed design diffs but never welded diffs( doesn't mean itr hasn't happened i just have never heard of it). you can also dyno with this set up. If you can pull the diff jerry does it for like a 100 or so. The problem with welding the diff is it is hard on your drive line(ie cv's, and u-joints) the reason it's hard on the drive line is that at slow speeds it tends to bind up esp. when backing up like in parking lots.
the welded vc makes the cars ture 4X4 liek the welded diff and enables you to dyno.An andvantage is that it can be removed fairly easy when not racing to give you back the low speed drivablity. the problem with it is that the diff is a big weak spot in the tranny and this does nothing to make that stronger.
hope this cgave some insite.
The welded center diff is strong, i have heard of people breaking speed design diffs but never welded diffs( doesn't mean itr hasn't happened i just have never heard of it). you can also dyno with this set up. If you can pull the diff jerry does it for like a 100 or so. The problem with welding the diff is it is hard on your drive line(ie cv's, and u-joints) the reason it's hard on the drive line is that at slow speeds it tends to bind up esp. when backing up like in parking lots.
the welded vc makes the cars ture 4X4 liek the welded diff and enables you to dyno.An andvantage is that it can be removed fairly easy when not racing to give you back the low speed drivablity. the problem with it is that the diff is a big weak spot in the tranny and this does nothing to make that stronger.
hope this cgave some insite.
__________________
eric.
Build your car for YOU, not for the fame and glory. Fame and glory fade with time but YOU will be around as long as you live.
eric.
Build your car for YOU, not for the fame and glory. Fame and glory fade with time but YOU will be around as long as you live.
I have a welded diff in my car. The only time you notice it is making sharp turns( pulling in/out of a parking spot or u-turns). I had jerry do mine for me when i had the tranny rebuilt. I daily drive my car and I dont think its that bad..
__________________
Honda/Acura certified Technician
Lexus/Toyota certified Technician
ASE certified
1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD sold
2003 Maxima SE
Honda/Acura certified Technician
Lexus/Toyota certified Technician
ASE certified
1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD sold
2003 Maxima SE
I welded mine too, it doesn't bother me at all but some don't like it.
The only time its really noticable is during low speed sharp turns the inside back tire will chirp/spin like having a spool in a rwd car.
The key to keeping drivetrain strain to the minimum is keeping tires of equal diameter at all four corners. What I do is air up the tires so that they are of equal diameter, front has a little more air due to the weight than the rear, when the car will easily roll by hand while in neutral I know my tires are roughly the same diameter.
The stock center diff has a tendancy to break when encountering wheel hop during a hard launch.
With the welded center diff I get pretty vicious wheel hop at all four corners but damned if the diff will break, axels are another story.
The only time its really noticable is during low speed sharp turns the inside back tire will chirp/spin like having a spool in a rwd car.
The key to keeping drivetrain strain to the minimum is keeping tires of equal diameter at all four corners. What I do is air up the tires so that they are of equal diameter, front has a little more air due to the weight than the rear, when the car will easily roll by hand while in neutral I know my tires are roughly the same diameter.
The stock center diff has a tendancy to break when encountering wheel hop during a hard launch.
With the welded center diff I get pretty vicious wheel hop at all four corners but damned if the diff will break, axels are another story.
__________________
Brad
1997 Eclipse Spyder GST 14.1 @ 100 MPH
1991 Eagle Talon AWD (HOW) 11.574 @ 115.29 MPH
1990 Plymouth Laser RS-T (Organ Donor) 13.19 @ 110 MPH
Brad
1997 Eclipse Spyder GST 14.1 @ 100 MPH
1991 Eagle Talon AWD (HOW) 11.574 @ 115.29 MPH
1990 Plymouth Laser RS-T (Organ Donor) 13.19 @ 110 MPH
alright, well from what eric said, i think ill go with the vc, taking that i understood correctly, all i have to do is put it in like the night before i take it to the dyno, and when i am there all i have to do is pull the driveshaft and im ready to go, and then when i get home i just lift up the car and pull the vc out...or do i actually have to take the bell housing off and get into the tranny to put the vc in?
having a welded diff almost sounds like a rear live axle, am i right?
having a welded diff almost sounds like a rear live axle, am i right?
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...

The VC is fairly easy to remove, you just pull the end cover of the tranny, the one on the inside of the passenger tire, remove a snap ring and the VC comes off.
This still leaves your 2 spider center diff as a possible weak point and is still succeptible to breaking.
The effects of having no VC to allow wheel speed differences between the inside front and rear wheels during a sharp turn is similar in feel to having a live axel rear drive car, or the same affect of having a 4wd truck in 4 low and trying to make a sharp turn.
This still leaves your 2 spider center diff as a possible weak point and is still succeptible to breaking.
The effects of having no VC to allow wheel speed differences between the inside front and rear wheels during a sharp turn is similar in feel to having a live axel rear drive car, or the same affect of having a 4wd truck in 4 low and trying to make a sharp turn.
__________________
Brad
1997 Eclipse Spyder GST 14.1 @ 100 MPH
1991 Eagle Talon AWD (HOW) 11.574 @ 115.29 MPH
1990 Plymouth Laser RS-T (Organ Donor) 13.19 @ 110 MPH
Brad
1997 Eclipse Spyder GST 14.1 @ 100 MPH
1991 Eagle Talon AWD (HOW) 11.574 @ 115.29 MPH
1990 Plymouth Laser RS-T (Organ Donor) 13.19 @ 110 MPH
so there is actually no modification to the tranny in using a vc? if there is a site that has some detailed info about them and prices and such, could someone post it?
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...

i found this, is this pretty accurate?
Inside a viscous coupler as shown in the right hand side picture, there are many circular plates positioning very close to each other. Both drive shafts connect to roughly half of the plates in an alternating sequence as shown. The sealed differential housing is fully contain of a high viscosity liquid, which has a strong tendency to "visco" those plates together.
In normal condition, front and rear axles run at roughly the same speed so the plates and viscous liquid are relatively stable to each other. When tyre slip occurs in one of the axle, that means the alternating plates run at different speed, viscous liquid will try to visco them together. As a result, torque is transferred from the faster driveshaft through the liquid to the slower driveshaft. The greater the speed difference, the larger the torque transfer. As a result, limited slip function is implemented.
Characteristic of Viscous Coupling center differential
Note that Viscous-Coupling LSD is a speed-sensing device: under no-slip condition, no torque will be sent to another axle. Whenever slip occurs, theoretically up to 100% torque can be sent to any axle, depending on the traction difference between front and rear axle. Therefore it is a part-time 4WD.
Being a part-time 4WD, it does not have the neutral steering of a permanent 4WD can obtain. For cars based on rear-wheel drive models, such as Porsche 911 Carrera 4, this is not a real problem - as normally the car runs like a RWD car thus is capable to deliver the desirable throttle oversteer . However, for other front-wheel drive-based cars like VW Golf Syncro and Volvo 850 AWD, the part-time 4WD can do nothing to correct their understeering manner. This is the first disadvantage.
The next problem is the delay before the 4WD get into effective. Since viscous liquid is not a fixed medium (unlike gear), it takes time and speed difference to be effective. The function between speed difference and torque transfer is an exponential function - that means in the early stage of slip, torque transfer remains near zero.
To cure this problem, most manufacturer varies the final drive ratio such that introduce a slightly speed difference even in normal condition. As a result, the car actually runs with 95:5 torque split between front and rear. This shorten the delay time. However, it is still impossible to match the pure mechanical Torsen LSD.
It might be less effective than Torsen system, but it is certainly the cheapest, so we can find it in many mass production 4WD cars.
Advantage: Cheap and compact
Disadvantage: Part-time 4WD only. Normally feels like 2WD.
Who use it ? VW Syncro, Lamborghini Diablo VT, Porsche 993/996 Carrera 4 and Turbo, Volvo 850 AWD etc.
In normal condition, front and rear axles run at roughly the same speed so the plates and viscous liquid are relatively stable to each other. When tyre slip occurs in one of the axle, that means the alternating plates run at different speed, viscous liquid will try to visco them together. As a result, torque is transferred from the faster driveshaft through the liquid to the slower driveshaft. The greater the speed difference, the larger the torque transfer. As a result, limited slip function is implemented.
Characteristic of Viscous Coupling center differential
Note that Viscous-Coupling LSD is a speed-sensing device: under no-slip condition, no torque will be sent to another axle. Whenever slip occurs, theoretically up to 100% torque can be sent to any axle, depending on the traction difference between front and rear axle. Therefore it is a part-time 4WD.
Being a part-time 4WD, it does not have the neutral steering of a permanent 4WD can obtain. For cars based on rear-wheel drive models, such as Porsche 911 Carrera 4, this is not a real problem - as normally the car runs like a RWD car thus is capable to deliver the desirable throttle oversteer . However, for other front-wheel drive-based cars like VW Golf Syncro and Volvo 850 AWD, the part-time 4WD can do nothing to correct their understeering manner. This is the first disadvantage.
The next problem is the delay before the 4WD get into effective. Since viscous liquid is not a fixed medium (unlike gear), it takes time and speed difference to be effective. The function between speed difference and torque transfer is an exponential function - that means in the early stage of slip, torque transfer remains near zero.
To cure this problem, most manufacturer varies the final drive ratio such that introduce a slightly speed difference even in normal condition. As a result, the car actually runs with 95:5 torque split between front and rear. This shorten the delay time. However, it is still impossible to match the pure mechanical Torsen LSD.
It might be less effective than Torsen system, but it is certainly the cheapest, so we can find it in many mass production 4WD cars.
Advantage: Cheap and compact
Disadvantage: Part-time 4WD only. Normally feels like 2WD.
Who use it ? VW Syncro, Lamborghini Diablo VT, Porsche 993/996 Carrera 4 and Turbo, Volvo 850 AWD etc.
__________________
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...
El Pendejo Loco
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa
1507 "dry" block
Brocks megaphone
Spencercycle 10" swingarm
MPS auto shifter
Hays convertible clutch
Yea, that about sums it up...



