vpc/afc vs stand alone
Guest
Posts: n/a
vpc/afc vs stand alone
me and a few people have had an ongoing debat between a vpc/afc combo vs a stand alone *best bang for buck*
i know that the fastest cars are all speed density
ie vpc but most stand alones do the same
jerry brings up a good point that a vpc will hold its value
but then again a nice stand alone will do the same
ive done alot of research on microtech, haltech e11, and read a little bit into dsm link
i know a few good points to the haltech e11
-Turbo wastegate control for boost control and you can have it setup similar to a avcr ie boost setting in each gear
-On board data logging (up to 200 samples per second)
-Control of fuel
and just the tunning capeabilities is endless
the micro tech i dont have alot of info on yet but i will be playing wiht one first hand soon so ill have a better opnion of it
more or less i just want to get peoples opnion and explanation
i know that the fastest cars are all speed density
ie vpc but most stand alones do the same
jerry brings up a good point that a vpc will hold its value
but then again a nice stand alone will do the same
ive done alot of research on microtech, haltech e11, and read a little bit into dsm link
i know a few good points to the haltech e11
-Turbo wastegate control for boost control and you can have it setup similar to a avcr ie boost setting in each gear
-On board data logging (up to 200 samples per second)
-Control of fuel
and just the tunning capeabilities is endless
the micro tech i dont have alot of info on yet but i will be playing wiht one first hand soon so ill have a better opnion of it
more or less i just want to get peoples opnion and explanation
Chowdah-head
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,304
Likes: 0
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....for the record...good luck with an E11, the E11, all the shit you need to run it, including a laptop, knock sensor (no, you can't use your stock one, and yes, they are expensive), map sensor, boost control solenoid, harness adapter..you may not have realized, but that shit is NOT included with the price of the haltech ecu, and tuning it should put your at around a solid $2800-$3500....vpc, yes, it works, but i cant justify the cost instead of getting a 3.5 inch Z06 mass air with translator for $350, when you will spend over $1000 in a vpc/gcc or s-afc, use your head. ..microtech...ya, keith is getting one...now try using your head for a second, for a street car, what makes more sense, spending over $3000 on tuning equipment, or $400, and $2600 in toys....as far as the "fastest cars in the world use speed density" goes.....
, thats not even worth the keystrokes
, thats not even worth the keystrokes
__________________
Poppa J. Smurf
Poppa J. Smurf
Last edited by PoppaSmurf; Aug 11, 2003 at 02:23 PM.
Resident Galant Guy
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Originally posted by PoppaSmurf
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....for the record...good luck with an E11, the E11, all the shit you need to run it, including a laptop, knock sensor (no, you can't use your stock one, and yes, they are expensive), map sensor, boost control solenoid, harness adapter..you may not have realized, but that shit is NOT included with the price of the haltech ecu, and tuning it should put your at around a solid $2800-$3500....vpc, yes, it works, but i cant justify the cost instead of getting a 3.5 inch Z06 mass air with translator for $350, when you will spend over $1000 in a vpc/gcc or s-afc, use your head. ..microtech...ya, keith is getting one...now try using your head for a second, for a street car, what makes more sense, spending over $3000 on tuning equipment, or $400, and $2600 in toys....as far as the "fastest cars in the world use speed density" goes.....:yawn:, thats not even worth the keystrokes
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....for the record...good luck with an E11, the E11, all the shit you need to run it, including a laptop, knock sensor (no, you can't use your stock one, and yes, they are expensive), map sensor, boost control solenoid, harness adapter..you may not have realized, but that shit is NOT included with the price of the haltech ecu, and tuning it should put your at around a solid $2800-$3500....vpc, yes, it works, but i cant justify the cost instead of getting a 3.5 inch Z06 mass air with translator for $350, when you will spend over $1000 in a vpc/gcc or s-afc, use your head. ..microtech...ya, keith is getting one...now try using your head for a second, for a street car, what makes more sense, spending over $3000 on tuning equipment, or $400, and $2600 in toys....as far as the "fastest cars in the world use speed density" goes.....:yawn:, thats not even worth the keystrokes
__________________
Mike
-------------------------
95 Lancer GSR
93 300ZX 2+2
Mike
-------------------------
95 Lancer GSR
93 300ZX 2+2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by PoppaSmurf
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....for the record...good luck with an E11, the E11, all the shit you need to run it, including a laptop, knock sensor (no, you can't use your stock one, and yes, they are expensive), map sensor, boost control solenoid, harness adapter..you may not have realized, but that shit is NOT included with the price of the haltech ecu, and tuning it should put your at around a solid $2800-$3500....vpc, yes, it works, but i cant justify the cost instead of getting a 3.5 inch Z06 mass air with translator for $350, when you will spend over $1000 in a vpc/gcc or s-afc, use your head. ..microtech...ya, keith is getting one...now try using your head for a second, for a street car, what makes more sense, spending over $3000 on tuning equipment, or $400, and $2600 in toys....as far as the "fastest cars in the world use speed density" goes.....:yawn:, thats not even worth the keystrokes
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....for the record...good luck with an E11, the E11, all the shit you need to run it, including a laptop, knock sensor (no, you can't use your stock one, and yes, they are expensive), map sensor, boost control solenoid, harness adapter..you may not have realized, but that shit is NOT included with the price of the haltech ecu, and tuning it should put your at around a solid $2800-$3500....vpc, yes, it works, but i cant justify the cost instead of getting a 3.5 inch Z06 mass air with translator for $350, when you will spend over $1000 in a vpc/gcc or s-afc, use your head. ..microtech...ya, keith is getting one...now try using your head for a second, for a street car, what makes more sense, spending over $3000 on tuning equipment, or $400, and $2600 in toys....as far as the "fastest cars in the world use speed density" goes.....:yawn:, thats not even worth the keystrokes
i only used the e11 as an example snice its the only haltech ive read into
im sure there are more haltechs that are less costly and require less expenses
i see paying 800-1200 for the standalone and then tunning being well worht the investment
you elemate alot of BS you dont need and for a "look" appel you even clean up the bay a little bit
im not saying anyone that does the vpc/afc is wasteing their time money
im simply trying to define reasons to go whcih route you go...... (if that makes any sense)
i just see the cost of both being about the same
yes a stand alone will cost more but not by much
and i def understand it all depends on your setup and budget
ie ill always prob have a mas and just a afc.......
out of curisouity cant we just make an upic pipe with the mas near the TB so the bov is before the mad??? wont that work so you wont have to recirculate the bov?
Nobody
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Originally posted by PoppaSmurf
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road
__________________
"So...is there any tread left on the tire..or at this point would it be like throwing a hotdog down a hallway"
-Stewie (Family Guy)
"So...is there any tread left on the tire..or at this point would it be like throwing a hotdog down a hallway"
-Stewie (Family Guy)
Nobody
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Ravage
out of curisouity cant we just make an upic pipe with the mas near the TB so the bov is before the mad??? wont that work so you wont have to recirculate the bov?
out of curisouity cant we just make an upic pipe with the mas near the TB so the bov is before the mad??? wont that work so you wont have to recirculate the bov?
__________________
"So...is there any tread left on the tire..or at this point would it be like throwing a hotdog down a hallway"
-Stewie (Family Guy)
"So...is there any tread left on the tire..or at this point would it be like throwing a hotdog down a hallway"
-Stewie (Family Guy)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by PoppaSmurf
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....
you know full well what my end of the debate is...to use your stock ecu and worry about putting the car back on the road.....
ok this is simply a discustion and nothing more
my car will be back on the road some day but not anytime soon
i refuse to put my car back together stock when i can live with out a car and save that much more money
and im sure that sean has heard this many of times but i will not be sastified with my car untill i can be the fastest in my lil group ie keith which will be a hard target to beat but everyone has their own goals
Olde Skool DSM'r
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
OK, How should I put this...
Stock ECU with VPC/GCC has gone 7s. Yes, SEVEN SECONDS in the 1/4 mile. It is a rare occasion that a street car needs a "standalone". It needs tons of supporting equipment including someone that is good at tuning it. A VPC has 4 knobs. Also, don't confuse your self that eliminating the MAS makes a bunch of power because you eliminate the "restriction" before the turbo. Also dont use it or some "Blow through" setup as an excuse to hear the "pfftt" sound.
The VPC monitors info given to it by sensors and chooses maps in the stock ECU that work VERY well regaurdless of what the ECU thinks. It convinces the ECU to use a map that would never be used in the situation in normal driving. The VPC MAKES POWER.
Lets not forget the stock MAS has seen 10s. in a street car. People looking for 13 or even 12's really dont need to worry about an alternative to the stock MAS. I've tried alternatives myself. The VPC works the best.
The GM MAF looks promising, but the fact that there have been many revisions to the electronics already tells me that it may not make power AND may have bugs.
Use the stock ECU, MAF and an AFC. It has been used by countless people with GREAT results. If you HAVE to mod it becasue you cant leave it stock, get a VPC.
Standalones are great. You dont have to fight the stock ECU. You can strip out your old wiring harness. if you feel the need. Ahhhh... refreshing. But, you have to fight changes in weather. Changes in gas quality. Changes to your cars setup. You are relying on the stock ECUs ability to find a very good, if not perfect, map for your situation. it does that well. A standalone is not a set it and forget it device.
bah... I'm babbling now...
Stock ECU with VPC/GCC has gone 7s. Yes, SEVEN SECONDS in the 1/4 mile. It is a rare occasion that a street car needs a "standalone". It needs tons of supporting equipment including someone that is good at tuning it. A VPC has 4 knobs. Also, don't confuse your self that eliminating the MAS makes a bunch of power because you eliminate the "restriction" before the turbo. Also dont use it or some "Blow through" setup as an excuse to hear the "pfftt" sound.
The VPC monitors info given to it by sensors and chooses maps in the stock ECU that work VERY well regaurdless of what the ECU thinks. It convinces the ECU to use a map that would never be used in the situation in normal driving. The VPC MAKES POWER.Lets not forget the stock MAS has seen 10s. in a street car. People looking for 13 or even 12's really dont need to worry about an alternative to the stock MAS. I've tried alternatives myself. The VPC works the best.
The GM MAF looks promising, but the fact that there have been many revisions to the electronics already tells me that it may not make power AND may have bugs.
Use the stock ECU, MAF and an AFC. It has been used by countless people with GREAT results. If you HAVE to mod it becasue you cant leave it stock, get a VPC.
Standalones are great. You dont have to fight the stock ECU. You can strip out your old wiring harness. if you feel the need. Ahhhh... refreshing. But, you have to fight changes in weather. Changes in gas quality. Changes to your cars setup. You are relying on the stock ECUs ability to find a very good, if not perfect, map for your situation. it does that well. A standalone is not a set it and forget it device.
bah... I'm babbling now...
