H23 - H22 question
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H23 - H22 question
Okay tr, is it possible to swap the head from an h22 onto the h23. If it is what would i need to get? wiring harness? what??!
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1996 Honda Prelude Si - 2.3 DOHC VTEC conversion,completed May 2001,
modified and successfully completed February 1, 2003... link to pictures at end of this page.
updated February 6, 2003 ***PARTS LIST*** Here is what was needed:
1. VTEC head, complete: cams, gears, rockers, valve cover.
2. VTEC timing belt- VTEC has more teeth on the belt than the Si does.
3. VTEC water pump.
4. VTEC auto hydraulic tensioner for timing belt.
5. VTEC manual tensioner.
6. VTEC head gasket.
7. VTEC lower, most inner crankshaft pulley; ('96 is different due to sensors!!!).
8. VTEC intake manifold ('96, throttle body has sensors which you need to use).
9. VTEC exhaust manifold - i couldnt find a used downpipe, dealer was $621, so i bought DC Headers-VTEC.
10. VTEC ECU/ECM.
11. VTEC spark plugs and wires.
12. VTEC water pump pipe (black pipe that runs behind the head from the water pump to thermostat housing.
13. VTEC injectors - if you don't change these over, then once you plug in the ECU/ECM you will keep blowing the 'EAT ECU' fuse when you crank/start the car.
*DISTRIBUTOR was the same so it did not need to be changed - double checked part numbers.
*VTEC controller - not required but could be used if you dont buy a new ECU/ECM and have a way to bypass your redline.
WHY i did it?
I started the car and heard the awkwardly tapping motor in my prelude as i left it on for a few minutes to warm up. It was idling pretty low lately so i didn't think much of it cause i knew it had something wrong with it but it was running. I pulled out of the driveway Thursday evening on April 4th, 2001, I approached the stop sign exiting the neighborhood then it just died quietly. I tried to start it several times but it was just whining, i could tell the engine was not turning so i realized the timing belt may have snapped. I knew the timing belt broke most likely from prying it on and off a few times. So luckily i was in the neighborhood and not far enough to push the car back in the garage rather than getting a tow truck. I pulled the valve cover off and there was the timing belt sitting there, broken. I replaced the belt but it still didnt start so i realized the valves are bent. So i pulled off the head and sure enough all the valves were bent and open. I decided to get something out of all this mess and go VTEC! So i found a VTEC head at a junk yard and took it to get it ported and polished. So now i have a ported and polished VTEC head on my 2.3 block rather than the 2.2 prelude VTECs come stock. I dont really know if this setup is worth doing just to do it if youre engine is fine or if you have a H22 motor that you can just swap in... it may not be worth the 2.3-2.2= 0.10 difference...
WHAT’s the difference between the setup and parts?
The reason for changing some of parts listed is because the VTEC timing belt has more teeth on it that the Si belt. Therefore you need to change everything that touches the timing belt such as the inner most crankshaft pulley, tensioners, and water pump- because you dont want to have to go back in there a few months down the road if it goes bad and starts leaking and open everything back up to change it. Change the lower balancer belt as well for the same reason as the water pump, however it does not need to be converted over to the VTEC part. The timing belt doesnt touch the balancer components on the lower block so nothing had to be modified with that, only what touches the timing belt.
Some stupid mistakes i made which didnt let the car run once i was done and i had overlooked was a blown "EAT ECU" fuse under the dash. Also the ECU ground was not reconnected which is bolted on the thermostat housing on the head. Then i had a major oil leak which made me think the head gasket was not sitting right; it turned out to be the cam seal on the exhaust cam was not sitting all the way down because the bracket holding it wasnt bolted down all the way which allowed oil to seep down underneath. Another obstacle i faced was my car being a '96. Not only the last year of the body style but the year they decided to go OBDII. The throttle body has several sensors which you need to keep! I used my original Si throttle body with the VTEC manifold, you'll have to figure out where the hoses go cause they are different. In the end i had to do a valve adjustment cause i had some tapping after i let a friend drive it, he punched it a little hard and high RPMs caused one of the rockers to come loose.
PROBLEM
But the dilemma out of all this is that its still redlining at the Si limit of 6500, not the VTEC limit of 7500!
The computer isnt giving me a check engine code all the time, sometimes i get code 22 which indicates a malfunction in or from the VTEC pressure switch so i still have a problem somewhere...
I changed the pressure switch out 3 times but thats not solving it so i may not be getting enough oil pressure... im sure its something small and stupid, but those are the worst to find and solve.
UPDATE * February 6, 2003 Successful VTEC... and 7800 redline... * UPDATE
CONCLUSION
I took the car apart in October 2002 to change the clutch, remove the head again to clean and flush it , and change the timing belt. I completed it on February 1, 2003. I installed an ACT Xtreme Clutch, put a new timing belt, and cleaned and flushed the head twice before putting it back on. The reason why i was not getting an extended redline was because there is an "oil control orifice" on the H23 block that needs to be removed. I removed this "plug" and reassembled the head. Sure enough, my redline goes to almost 8000 RPM (approx. 7800). And you can hear the VTEC clearly kick on at approx. 5400-5500 RPM.
Of course you need to run the VTEC power wire from the solenoid to the ECU/ECM. And you need to wire the VTEC pressure switch which has two leads/wires, one lead goes to ground and the other goes to the ECU/ECM as well. My car was already wired for VTEC. I dont know if all Preludes come like that or it varies from year to year however, the pressure switch signal and VTEC solenoid power was already in the main harness from the ECU/ECM to the engine bay.
RECOMMENDATION
As you have noticed, i did not open the block at all which is why i did not do this to begin with. Today i ordered the "oil jet(s)" also known as "piston squirters" from Honda. I think it would be safe to do this now than be sorry later. Obviously the H23 block is only designed for 6400RPM... so it may only be able to handle 7800 RPM for so long. I think this would be a safe measure to protect the pistons at higher RPMS. It doesnt cost much and shouldnt be too much work. Open up the oil pan and remove the plate covering the rods and it should bolt right in. I will install this very soon, probably by the next oil change.
TO REQUEST MORE DETAILED INFO...
I get a lot of emails asking me about this setup and sometimes it is hard for me to keep up with all of them . If you would like instructions, pictures, and diagrams for this swap, send me an email first and $49 through Paypal to pay for the costs of shipping & printing of the pictures & diagrams, as well as my time. This is a non-profit price. I try to include everything as well as extra information such as check engine codes and more to assist you in any other issues that you may come across while working on your vehicle. I will put it together for you and mail them to you as soon as possible. I no longer offer it through email or CD format since it is easier to be reproduced, sorry for the inconvenience.
speeddemontx@mad-psi.com
www.mad-psi.com
this is not from me, so don't ask me anything about it, i just searched
modified and successfully completed February 1, 2003... link to pictures at end of this page.
updated February 6, 2003 ***PARTS LIST*** Here is what was needed:
1. VTEC head, complete: cams, gears, rockers, valve cover.
2. VTEC timing belt- VTEC has more teeth on the belt than the Si does.
3. VTEC water pump.
4. VTEC auto hydraulic tensioner for timing belt.
5. VTEC manual tensioner.
6. VTEC head gasket.
7. VTEC lower, most inner crankshaft pulley; ('96 is different due to sensors!!!).
8. VTEC intake manifold ('96, throttle body has sensors which you need to use).
9. VTEC exhaust manifold - i couldnt find a used downpipe, dealer was $621, so i bought DC Headers-VTEC.
10. VTEC ECU/ECM.
11. VTEC spark plugs and wires.
12. VTEC water pump pipe (black pipe that runs behind the head from the water pump to thermostat housing.
13. VTEC injectors - if you don't change these over, then once you plug in the ECU/ECM you will keep blowing the 'EAT ECU' fuse when you crank/start the car.
*DISTRIBUTOR was the same so it did not need to be changed - double checked part numbers.
*VTEC controller - not required but could be used if you dont buy a new ECU/ECM and have a way to bypass your redline.
WHY i did it?
I started the car and heard the awkwardly tapping motor in my prelude as i left it on for a few minutes to warm up. It was idling pretty low lately so i didn't think much of it cause i knew it had something wrong with it but it was running. I pulled out of the driveway Thursday evening on April 4th, 2001, I approached the stop sign exiting the neighborhood then it just died quietly. I tried to start it several times but it was just whining, i could tell the engine was not turning so i realized the timing belt may have snapped. I knew the timing belt broke most likely from prying it on and off a few times. So luckily i was in the neighborhood and not far enough to push the car back in the garage rather than getting a tow truck. I pulled the valve cover off and there was the timing belt sitting there, broken. I replaced the belt but it still didnt start so i realized the valves are bent. So i pulled off the head and sure enough all the valves were bent and open. I decided to get something out of all this mess and go VTEC! So i found a VTEC head at a junk yard and took it to get it ported and polished. So now i have a ported and polished VTEC head on my 2.3 block rather than the 2.2 prelude VTECs come stock. I dont really know if this setup is worth doing just to do it if youre engine is fine or if you have a H22 motor that you can just swap in... it may not be worth the 2.3-2.2= 0.10 difference...
WHAT’s the difference between the setup and parts?
The reason for changing some of parts listed is because the VTEC timing belt has more teeth on it that the Si belt. Therefore you need to change everything that touches the timing belt such as the inner most crankshaft pulley, tensioners, and water pump- because you dont want to have to go back in there a few months down the road if it goes bad and starts leaking and open everything back up to change it. Change the lower balancer belt as well for the same reason as the water pump, however it does not need to be converted over to the VTEC part. The timing belt doesnt touch the balancer components on the lower block so nothing had to be modified with that, only what touches the timing belt.
Some stupid mistakes i made which didnt let the car run once i was done and i had overlooked was a blown "EAT ECU" fuse under the dash. Also the ECU ground was not reconnected which is bolted on the thermostat housing on the head. Then i had a major oil leak which made me think the head gasket was not sitting right; it turned out to be the cam seal on the exhaust cam was not sitting all the way down because the bracket holding it wasnt bolted down all the way which allowed oil to seep down underneath. Another obstacle i faced was my car being a '96. Not only the last year of the body style but the year they decided to go OBDII. The throttle body has several sensors which you need to keep! I used my original Si throttle body with the VTEC manifold, you'll have to figure out where the hoses go cause they are different. In the end i had to do a valve adjustment cause i had some tapping after i let a friend drive it, he punched it a little hard and high RPMs caused one of the rockers to come loose.
PROBLEM
But the dilemma out of all this is that its still redlining at the Si limit of 6500, not the VTEC limit of 7500!
The computer isnt giving me a check engine code all the time, sometimes i get code 22 which indicates a malfunction in or from the VTEC pressure switch so i still have a problem somewhere...
I changed the pressure switch out 3 times but thats not solving it so i may not be getting enough oil pressure... im sure its something small and stupid, but those are the worst to find and solve.
UPDATE * February 6, 2003 Successful VTEC... and 7800 redline... * UPDATE
CONCLUSION
I took the car apart in October 2002 to change the clutch, remove the head again to clean and flush it , and change the timing belt. I completed it on February 1, 2003. I installed an ACT Xtreme Clutch, put a new timing belt, and cleaned and flushed the head twice before putting it back on. The reason why i was not getting an extended redline was because there is an "oil control orifice" on the H23 block that needs to be removed. I removed this "plug" and reassembled the head. Sure enough, my redline goes to almost 8000 RPM (approx. 7800). And you can hear the VTEC clearly kick on at approx. 5400-5500 RPM.
Of course you need to run the VTEC power wire from the solenoid to the ECU/ECM. And you need to wire the VTEC pressure switch which has two leads/wires, one lead goes to ground and the other goes to the ECU/ECM as well. My car was already wired for VTEC. I dont know if all Preludes come like that or it varies from year to year however, the pressure switch signal and VTEC solenoid power was already in the main harness from the ECU/ECM to the engine bay.
RECOMMENDATION
As you have noticed, i did not open the block at all which is why i did not do this to begin with. Today i ordered the "oil jet(s)" also known as "piston squirters" from Honda. I think it would be safe to do this now than be sorry later. Obviously the H23 block is only designed for 6400RPM... so it may only be able to handle 7800 RPM for so long. I think this would be a safe measure to protect the pistons at higher RPMS. It doesnt cost much and shouldnt be too much work. Open up the oil pan and remove the plate covering the rods and it should bolt right in. I will install this very soon, probably by the next oil change.
TO REQUEST MORE DETAILED INFO...
I get a lot of emails asking me about this setup and sometimes it is hard for me to keep up with all of them . If you would like instructions, pictures, and diagrams for this swap, send me an email first and $49 through Paypal to pay for the costs of shipping & printing of the pictures & diagrams, as well as my time. This is a non-profit price. I try to include everything as well as extra information such as check engine codes and more to assist you in any other issues that you may come across while working on your vehicle. I will put it together for you and mail them to you as soon as possible. I no longer offer it through email or CD format since it is easier to be reproduced, sorry for the inconvenience.
speeddemontx@mad-psi.com
www.mad-psi.com
this is not from me, so don't ask me anything about it, i just searched
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