Tial wastegate sizes...what's the difference?
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Originally posted by mtber
Yes it does, buy a tial 38mm & have a nice day.
Yes it does, buy a tial 38mm & have a nice day.
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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so fucking temperamental.
Boom Chackalacka
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Yes, The gases are released throught the wastegate before it its the turbo. There is no minimum boost since you have to go through 1lb to get to 5 and 10lbs of boost.
The difference in the WG isn't only the spring, but the size of the opening on the WG. You can think that at 25 lbs on a T77 is flowing LOTS of air. Once pressure reaches 25lbs the air going through the manifold need to maintain spool but not increase it. The wastegate opens and allows that air to go via the dumptube.
If your WG is to small, when it opens (or doesn't open all the way or is to small for the amount of air needing to be relased), it will not allow the correct amount of air out the tube. This will send the "extra" exhaust air through the turbine causing a boost creep.
The good thing is that 38mm will work fine on your B16. If you need more you can put a stronger spring on it and you'll have plent of waste available for a B16.
O... and it usually knows how much gasses are needed to go to the turbine instead of WG by the boost preasure.
This is only my understanding, I'm no expert.
The difference in the WG isn't only the spring, but the size of the opening on the WG. You can think that at 25 lbs on a T77 is flowing LOTS of air. Once pressure reaches 25lbs the air going through the manifold need to maintain spool but not increase it. The wastegate opens and allows that air to go via the dumptube.
If your WG is to small, when it opens (or doesn't open all the way or is to small for the amount of air needing to be relased), it will not allow the correct amount of air out the tube. This will send the "extra" exhaust air through the turbine causing a boost creep.
The good thing is that 38mm will work fine on your B16. If you need more you can put a stronger spring on it and you'll have plent of waste available for a B16.
O... and it usually knows how much gasses are needed to go to the turbine instead of WG by the boost preasure.
This is only my understanding, I'm no expert.
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Thread Starter
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thanks, that answered a lot of questions. one last one...what does it mean that the spring is 7.5psi (the 38mm Tial)? I've also heard of 10psi and 12psi...what's the difference there?
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The best engine in the world is the vagina, it takes any size piston, its self lubricating, starts with 1 finger, and every 4 weeks does its own oil change. It's just a pity the management system is so fucking temperamental.
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*shakes head* I don't even want to go into how odd some of this information is...
If you're making under 400whp, the 38mm tial is more then you need. Over 400, go with the 44.
If you have a 5psi spring, you can NOT go lower then 5psi, ever. Unless you make a way to divert more gas into the chamber, such as disconnecting the mechanical part of the gate.
Here's how a wastegate works....
It's basicly a valve, opperated by vaccuum and pressure(boost). The spring is set for a certain psi. Under vacuum, this valve is closed, but as it aproaches 5psi, it will begin to open. Once it reaches 5psi it opens all the way. If it cannot open fast enough, this will cause a boost spike, and that settles down once the valve is open. If the gate is not large enough for your exhaust flow, and is unable to pass enough exhaust gases to maintain boost, you will get what is called boost creep. This is when your boost will raise slowly through out the rpm band. If you have a 5psi spring, and you're flowing too much exhaust for it's wastegate, it will raise slowly past 5psi, to 6, 7, 8psi+.
The wastegate itself is very simple. Think of it, as just a valve with a spring. When force of Xpsi is put on that spring, it opens.
Did that help?
If you're making under 400whp, the 38mm tial is more then you need. Over 400, go with the 44.
If you have a 5psi spring, you can NOT go lower then 5psi, ever. Unless you make a way to divert more gas into the chamber, such as disconnecting the mechanical part of the gate.
Here's how a wastegate works....
It's basicly a valve, opperated by vaccuum and pressure(boost). The spring is set for a certain psi. Under vacuum, this valve is closed, but as it aproaches 5psi, it will begin to open. Once it reaches 5psi it opens all the way. If it cannot open fast enough, this will cause a boost spike, and that settles down once the valve is open. If the gate is not large enough for your exhaust flow, and is unable to pass enough exhaust gases to maintain boost, you will get what is called boost creep. This is when your boost will raise slowly through out the rpm band. If you have a 5psi spring, and you're flowing too much exhaust for it's wastegate, it will raise slowly past 5psi, to 6, 7, 8psi+.
The wastegate itself is very simple. Think of it, as just a valve with a spring. When force of Xpsi is put on that spring, it opens.
Did that help?
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Chowdah-head
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jeff, im gonna call you out on this one, you can run well into the 500's on a 38mm, ron was making 540 on one, Joe Bucci (mitsubucci) made around 500'ish at the wheels with one, so no, after 400 hp you dont need a bigger gate....btw....the rest of the info was correct
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Poppa J. Smurf
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Originally posted by PoppaSmurf
jeff, im gonna call you out on this one, you can run well into the 500's on a 38mm, ron was making 540 on one, Joe Bucci (mitsubucci) made around 500'ish at the wheels with one, so no, after 400 hp you dont need a bigger gate....btw....the rest of the info was correct
jeff, im gonna call you out on this one, you can run well into the 500's on a 38mm, ron was making 540 on one, Joe Bucci (mitsubucci) made around 500'ish at the wheels with one, so no, after 400 hp you dont need a bigger gate....btw....the rest of the info was correct
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Boom Chackalacka
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Originally posted by Cronic
*shakes head* I don't even want to go into how odd some of this information is...
...
If you have a 5psi spring, you can NOT go lower then 5psi, ever. Unless you make a way to divert more gas into the chamber, such as disconnecting the mechanical part of the gate.
*shakes head* I don't even want to go into how odd some of this information is...
...
If you have a 5psi spring, you can NOT go lower then 5psi, ever. Unless you make a way to divert more gas into the chamber, such as disconnecting the mechanical part of the gate.
Yep there are some odd things in my post let me point some out.
1.) The Tial 38M would be enough for his B16. This may have been interpreted as being said for any B16... I meant for his B16 with his goals. -- I do believe you would be hard pressed to find a "non-professional" B16 that requires more then a 38, and if it does a larger springs should do it .... Since the opening should be big enough to bypass the amount of air needed to prevent more boost or surge.
2.) I said the wastegate opens based on boost pressure. I should have said manifold pressure?
I would appreciate it if you corrected me in anything I mistate. I'm new and am learning too. I even put a disclamer hoping that someone would let me know if any of my understandings are wrong :bbb:
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Originally posted by Rich
Horsepower doens't mean dick, it has to do with how much boost you are going to run on X motor with Y turbo. If you have a huge turbo, and you want to run 10 lbs of boost with it, you're going to need a big wastegate. If you have a medium size turbo and are going to squeeze every gasp of air out of the thing, you don't need a big wastegate.
Horsepower doens't mean dick, it has to do with how much boost you are going to run on X motor with Y turbo. If you have a huge turbo, and you want to run 10 lbs of boost with it, you're going to need a big wastegate. If you have a medium size turbo and are going to squeeze every gasp of air out of the thing, you don't need a big wastegate.
There are a million other factors to consider here as well, but that's the jist of it.
kthanksbye.
And smurf, I said 400whp as a reference number. Im sure one could make more power on the wastegate, but it's getting close to an upgrade. So if he plans on making over 400, why not just get the larger valve? It was just speculation on when he should upgrade, to spend less money. See where Im commin from?
Last edited by Cronic; Jan 7, 2005 at 07:51 AM.
