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10 Cars That Sank Detroit

Old Apr 5, 2009 | 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by robofunc
The benchmark was the integra type-r's 190ish up. Those cars were using technology from the 80s/90s and dodge finally put out a fast ff car in 2002? The srt4 was bulit for power and the hondas were built to go around curves. They weren't really in the same class. The neon rt, maybe, but not the srt4.

The big 3 have plenty of fine cars, but the reputation they earned with thier out of touch business practices have hurt thier newer models chances for success.

I would rock the he'll out of an Omni GLH, but gm gave up on hot hatches.
The GLH wasn't built by GM and....
I've seen plenty of SRT-4 Neons tearing it up at roadcourses.

Here is a list of some victories:
In 2003, Cory O'Brien and Erich Heuschele drove an SRT-4 to a 1st in class and 8th overall finish in the Tire Rack Cannonball One Lap of America.[23]
In SCCA ProRally racing, the SRT-4 (and more recently the ACR version) has dominated the Group 5 (2WD) class since 2003. [24] In just its first year competing, the Dodge ended the stranglehold that the FWD DSMs and Volkswagens had on the class. With three entries competing the following year, the SRT-4 won every 2004 series race and end-of-season award. [25] The SRT-4 has won every Group 5 and 2-Wheel-Drive class championship in US ProRally and Sno Drift since 2003, and its unprecedented dominance in 2004 helped Dodge earn its first US ProRally Manufacturers Championship in 28 years. [26]
In 2005, Jeff Lepper drove the SRT-4 to its first ever national road racing win in the NASA US Touring Car Championship at California Speedway in Fontana.[27]
In 2005, Dale Seeley, Kolin Aspergren, and Jamin Cummings drove an SRT-4 to a 1st in class and 8th overall finish in the Tire Rack Cannonball One Lap of America.[28]
In 2006, the Dodge SRT-4 officially became the world's fastest production 4-cylinder car, averaging 221 mph (356 km/h) at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah in a car built by Dave Harris and Phil Hurst for Racedeck Racing.[29]
Robb Holland and Dan Aweida's SPEED World Challenge SRT-4's.
Multiple SRT-4s were raced in the SCCA SPEED World Challenge - Touring Car Series[30], and in 2006 - their second year of competition - had become one of the more successful platforms in the series. Robb Holland, of 3R Racing, became the first Pro driver to put the SRT-4 on the podium with his 3rd place finish at Road America in August 2006. This was Dodge's first podium and first manufacturer's points in World Challenge Touring Car competition. Holland would finish the season with 3 top 10 finishes and two top 5 qualifying efforts in the SRT-4. [31] [32] [33]
In 2007, Doug Wind, Devin Clancy, and Ken Brewer drove an SRT-4 to a 1st in class and 5th overall finish in the Tire Rack Cannonball One Lap of America.[34]
In 2007, Curt Simmons won the U.S. Touring Car Championship in an SRT-4 [35] and Dodge won the season manufacturers points championship by 29 points over Honda behind the strength of several SRT-4's.[36]
In 2007, Stan Wilson won the Speed World Challenge Touring Car Rookie Driver of the Year and the Sunoco Hard Charger of the Year awards driving the Sorted Performance Dodge SRT-4. [37] This title was Dodge's first title in Speed World Challenge Touring Car.
In 2008, Curt Simmons attempts to defend his USTCC series championship, winning most recently June 29, 2008 at Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA.[38]


I think you'd be surprised. GM's latest hatch the Saturn Astra is a great little hatch that offers good performance and features all for the price of a ho-hum civic.

If you think it sucks, ask Europe they seem to love it and find it's potential performance to be good.


While not a hatch, the Cobalt SS will take on Honda/Acura's best on a race track or the drag strip and will probably beat 'em.


I know I'll be laughed at for this, but I'll say it...the Malibu Maxx SS offered 240HP from a pushrod V6, lots of torque, taught handling, and room for the whole family. All for just a hair over $20g's. Not a ground breaking car, but a decent ride and a huge bargain. If it had a Honda badge on it, plenty of kids would be driving them.


I'll admit, the Big 3 could have focused more efforts on building some better smaller cars. But really, what do they have to do? They build economy cars that can out-perform many of the imports that most people here put on a pedestal. And they do it for less $$$ and yeah, maybe the interior fit and finish isn't as good. BFD....it's still a quality car and cost less and is superior or equal to in performance.
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fastforward
No, the innovation lies in that until the SRT-4's 230 HP motor was unveiled the performance benchmark was Honda's, by comparison, anemic 160HP 4 banger.
The fact that Dodge milked so much power out of the 2.4 liter econo-motor was staggering and innovative.



Civic doesn't even use anything close to a 2.4liter ...

1.5/1.6/1.8. Im not sure on the newer version hondas but if Honda had a 2.4 they put out in a civic si, or a Integra Type R. Im pretty sure it would of had way more then 160hp. Possibly in the 200ish range. Look at all the kids/young adults now that are modding up a D16 or a B16,B18,B20 vtec to have over 200 hp. Imagine if they had a 2.4l vtec in a civic, or integra stock from the factory with over 200hp. That would be a beast to begin with. Would out perform the neon in my opinion especially once they start to mod it.
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 08:40 PM
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I looked at a Malibu Maxx several years back. Maybe around 2004 or 05 It is out of style, way over priced, and not worth it in my opinion.


Edit: And those SRT-4's that you posted up are So bad ass !!!!!! They look hot as hell.

Edit #2: and the cobalt you posted up doesn't seem to have a young vibe to me. Now the Last year body style cavalier to me looks 10x better.
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 08:53 PM
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i've been really thinking about picking up one of the new cobalt ss/tc...they are consistently ranked at the top of the class in every comparison i've seen to date...and the interior isn't as nice as a mazdaspeed3 or civic si, but it will damn well outperform both, and get better gas mileage
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by medicmatt
i've been really thinking about picking up one of the new cobalt ss/tc...they are consistently ranked at the top of the class in every comparison i've seen to date...and the interior isn't as nice as a mazdaspeed3 or civic si, but it will damn well outperform both, and get better gas mileage


Aren't they going to stop making the cobalt after this year and have something new ??
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 09:07 PM
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ya, its called the cruz, it doesn't impress me...i can live with the bland styling of the cobalt, in fact i've seen a few i liked with some exterior mods done...i would be a used ss/tc tho....i would never buy a car brand new, unless i won the lottery
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 09:10 PM
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^ Only car I will buy brand new would be a brand new RX-7 not the shit ghey P.O.S RX-8 but a RX-7.. RX-8 is only good as a paper weight. hahaha. . But I would love to own a brand new challenger, or Ford Taurus.
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 09:16 PM
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the new AWD taurus with the 3.5 ecoboost looks pretty nice
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CoRDiTe
Civic doesn't even use anything close to a 2.4liter ...

1.5/1.6/1.8. Im not sure on the newer version hondas but if Honda had a 2.4 they put out in a civic si, or a Integra Type R. Im pretty sure it would of had way more then 160hp. Possibly in the 200ish range. Look at all the kids/young adults now that are modding up a D16 or a B16,B18,B20 vtec to have over 200 hp. Imagine if they had a 2.4l vtec in a civic, or integra stock from the factory with over 200hp. That would be a beast to begin with. Would out perform the neon in my opinion especially once they start to mod it.
The new Si comes with over 200hp and its a 2.0 with no power adder..Honda actually came out with a turboed 2.3 but they put it in a suv

K23A1

* Turbocharged
* Found in:
o 2007/2008 Acura RDX
+ Displacement: 2,300 cc (140.4 cu in) [1]
+ Compression: 8.8:1 [2]
+ Power: 240 hp (179 kW) @ 6000 rpm (SAE net)
+ Torque: 260 lb·ft (353 N·m) @ 4500 rpm (SAE net)

+ Redline: 6800 rpm [3]
+ Bore: 86 mm
+ Stroke: 99 mm

2007- Honda Civic Type-R (FD2)

* Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
* Compression: 11.7:1
* Power: 222 bhp (225 PS, 165 kW) @ 8000 rpm
* Torque: 158 ft·lbf (215 N·m) @ 7000 rpm
* Redline: 8600 rpm

K20A2

* Found in:
o 2002-2004 Acura RSX Type-S and 2002-2005 Honda Civic Type R (EP3, European)
+ Displacement: 1,998 cc (121.9 cu in)
+ Compression: 11.0:1
+ Power: 200 ps/201 hp (148 kW) @ 7400 rpm
+ Torque: 146 ft·lbf (193N·m) @ 5600 rpm
+ Redline: 7900 rpm
+ I-VTEC engagement: 5800 rpm
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Old Apr 5, 2009 | 11:10 PM
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^ sweet information.
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