I'm needing some guidance/education.

In the very near future, I'm going to be in the market for a f250 diesel.
I've been attempting some research on the net, but I don't know that I'm finding what I'm looking for.
At this point, I know I'm looking for the 199/5 to 2007 generation.
The little bit that I was able to find thus far says that the 2003 and older have the better engine/drivetrain. Seems like the 7.3 was pretty much as good as it gets and the 6.0 had all kinds of problems.
I like some of the options the newer trucks had. The Harley Davidson edition seems awesome. But then again, I've never been able to compare them side by side, and I can't find anything on line that goes into detail the differences between the H/D trim and the XLT trim levels. If it is just a difference of things like "upgraded audio" well, i'd be installing my own radio and everything anyway. So that's not really worth it.
But if the overall interior is worlds different/better, then that's something worth looking into.
Would it be a huge pain in the ass to take the cool stuff from the Harley model, or even the king ranch model and put them into the older 2000-2003 model?

Is the 6.0 as bad as the internet makes it out to be?

With basic bolt ons, and a good tune, what kind of performance would the truck make? MPG? I have seen some places on line that say less than 10 mpg and others that claim up to 25 in the city.

Common things to upgrade/fix/modify?

Any other advice?

Any good sources of info?

 

oh, and just for giggles, any thoughts on swapping the entire 7.3 drivetrain into a early 2000's F150?

say it would be used for a lawn business. So the trailer isn't crazy heavy. Would only need a crew cab or so. Gas mileage and maneuverability would be the main concerns.
Think it would be worth it? or would the weight and size savings be minimal?

 

the 7.3 was a great motor for its time, but if you want more options you have to go with the minimum 6.0 and of course the better options and such with the 6.4 and now the new 6.7. As for the reliability of the 6.0, the early 2003 to 2004 6.0 were susceptable to more failures. However, if planned out right and the right add ons and mods, you can have a 6.0 that is a beast, and will take anything you can throw at it. You will hear horror stories about the motors, but keep in mind out of the hundreds of thousand they did sell, how many didnt have a hitch, you arent going to hear about too many owners who had no issues, because why would they ask questions? I have 85K miles on my 6.0 and they only thing I had worked on was an egr failure at 43K miles. Now I do already have a set of ARP Studs, and new MLS gaskets, and oil cooler and egr delete already still in the boxes ready to go just in case it does happen. I found a diesel tech who will put everything in for a good price, and I hear Cody on here is a pretty good diesel tech as well, i dont know about his prices, but when I am ready, I will make sure to look him up. Those motors are like kids so if you take care of them they will flourish. I love my 6.0, as for the newer ones, I cant comment but I love the design of them.

 

I personally love the 7.3 in my 2000. I have about 200K on it and the worst problems I have are from putting a 75/100 chip on the truck! It is a DOG otherwise. I resolved those issues by dropping to a 50/75 chip. I have blown the turbo piping apart, hand normal alt. and battery issues, but other than those, the truck has been super reliable. (Maintenance is a big MUST!! Change the oil and antifreeze regularly!!)
I had a friend with a 2003? with the 6.0. It was faster than my truck, even before he put a tune in it. His truck was even better, after he put a tune on it! He could barely get 13mpg out of his truck towing and I was usually good for about 17.2, depending on conditions. His truck also sucked unloaded, but he also loved blowing black smoke all over the imports. He popped his head gasket, just like clock work. Right at 80k, he had to fix it with the head bolts and gaskets. Not really that big of a deal, as we knew it was coming from what we had read.

The only differences I can think of with the Lariat vs. the XLT was the stereo and leather. I used to know it, but I have forgotten. The leather only comes stock in the Lariat or just order the seat covers yourself.

I might be wrong on this, but prior to 2000, the Super Duty truck had an Allison transmission in them. In my opinion, those are better transmissions than the 2000 and up. I would have preferred to have that transmission, but the 4R100 hasn't been that bad. I upgraded some parts and it has been a solid performer. I am not a fan of the way it shifts, but after 200K.... who am I to complain!

I really wouldn't want to deal with swapping the motor into a 150 model. I really doubt the suspension would hold it, without major changes. I mean, if you have the skill, time, and money to waste.... I would just find the right deal out there. Dealers aren't moving these like a few years back. They have to be out there for a decent price. And if you are just going to be pulling an open trailer with a tractor or two, there is a guy in my area that has been that with a old 70s in line 6. It ain't fast, but he has to have saved a ton on his rig!

 

that was exactly my fears. all of the horror stories. The internet really makes that engine out to be one of ford's biggest mistakes.
I'd like to build a pretty sweet little truck.
well, maybe little isn't the best word. lol.
But I want a nice truck that I can drive everyday without having to worry if it is going to blow up, but still satisfy my "hot rod" needs, all while pulling my landscape truck around without breaking the bank on gas.

I'm planning on buying the truck then tearing into it and getting everything fresh and built up some and all of that.
Think that would cover all of the "problems" you would run into with the 6.0 engine?

In all serious, from what I've been able to find out about the 6.0 engine, it worries me. Almost seems like it is a timebomb of issues just waiting to happen. Is it all just things like, change out the injectors to "newer/better" and the problem goes away or is it more than that?
the fact that you suggested the 6.0 engine stuck my interest. I don't mind doing the work. I've built cars for years and years. so "fixing" things and doing the upgrades to prevent failure isn't a deal breaker, but are we talking a few upgrades that someone looking for some more power would do anyway? Or we talking a total engine rebuild?

 

That's what I hear all over the internet.
"the 7.3 has never let me down" "makes great power, and more reliable than my mother" Things like that make me feel more confident in that engine.
Faster is good. I like faster.
Gas mileage though is a big deal. Can the 6.0 make 20+ mpg daily driven? even my landscape trailer is only a couple thousand pounds. I don't want to kick myself because I got a little more speed, but nailed on MPG.
Is it a manor how it is built up?
I don't want to really ever dump smoke out the pipes. Don't like the image that portrays. But I do want some power though. Is that the trade off? 500 whp means black smoke?
What do you mean by his truck sucked unloaded? Was it a rough pain in the ass to ride in?
Again, is that something that can be easily fixed?
Since this truck will be my daily driver, I'd like a decent ride. I don't want to bang my wife and daughter or other friends around when we're going out to dinner because the truck rides like a work truck.
But I don't wanna have a nice ride, and not be able to haul stuff around. Know what I mean?
See, that's what I was wondering. I can swap seats out. and I'd put my own stereo system in it anyway so that isn't a deal breaker. I've not been able to find a comparison between the different models that really shows how they are different. The wheels are different, but I'd go aftermarket anyway. the seats are different, but seat swaps aren't that big of a deal. What about useful stuff, like lights? accessory power outlets? are the beds any different? Do the trucks ride any different?
exactly. 200+k on it and it is still going. makes me happy to hear.
I figure I'm going to keep it automatic for a while, but once the auto craps out, then I'll be looking at doing the swap. I thin k a stick shift truck would be fun to drive. It just isn't something I'm looking for right now. Wanna get everything else worked out first.
the 150 idea just seemed like a neat-o idea to pursue down the road. Make it a project type thing. I figure beefing up the suspension some would be in order. the idea was that the smaller truck would be easier to maneuver. maybe more comfy to drive. and since it weighed so much less, it should get better MPG. It'd be a work truck. The whole thing would revolve around towing a rather smaller, few thousand pound trailer. Not something I would be pushing for right now. Just an idea i was throwin' out.
That was one of the thoughts I had, but from an overall stand point. Owning a work truck, in addition to a personal daily driver was just an unjustified expense. It works out to be cheaper to have one truck to do it all. So a strictly work truck might be an option, but down the road when there is enough business to justify it.

Which is why I'm looking for an awesome daily driver truck, that is fun to drive, but at the same time, has the nuts to be a good work truck.

 

really appreciate the info guys.
rep for you guys.

really really appreciate it.

 

Your fears with the horror stories can definetely be found on the 03-04 motors. The late 04 motors on up were far less prone to being hurt. The late 04 motors are different, pretty much you can tell with the location of the ICP sensor. Or looking at the manufacturing date of the motor. After August 05 Navistar(International) really tightened up there design and therefore made things a little better. With about 3500.00 on the 6.0 motor you cant beat it. If you purchase the model year 05 you pretty much get the same truck with the exception of the front grill and headlights. If you buy the 03-04 you can easily buy the grill and the Harley Davidson headlights. And if you really want the perfect truck, you want to build on a F250 Platform with the Alison Transmission and the Cummins 24V common rail, that would be the perfect truck in my eyes. But seriously with 3500.00 you can easily buy the items you need and an SCT with custom tunes and easily throw it on your rig and ride out. There are tons of guys that have done it. The problem is when some people throw the 150 CAN race tune on a stock motor and expect it to stomp ass, when all it is gonna do is fall on its face. You can do that but after it is all built and be safe about it.
Check this out, this is primarily what you would need to get pass the crap
6.0 Diesel Powerstroke EGR Delete Black Onyx Oil Cooler | eBay
Do the work yourself and badda-bing. Call Jody at Innovative Diesel and he can set you up with some custom tunes on an SCT Xcal and your ready to rock and can get you an economy tune as well, pull your FICM and Jody can also tune FICM's also for economy driving and runs the new flash on them. Supposedly people are saying running the economy tune and the FICM flash are yeilding about 20 mpg. I dont know the truth to that or if it is just propaganda.

 

Ryan is 100% correct, the (mid-03 to mid-05) 6.0L had numerous problems with headgaskets/EGR coolers/Oil coolers. If you get a late 05+ 6.0L you will be fine. If you choose to do the Headstuds/EGR-/Oil cooler+/SCT tune. Your truck will be pretty much bullet proof. For what you are wanting to do... Yes these 6.0's can get 17-19mpg with the mods mentioned above. But they have to be done right. The 7.3 is also a very good platform, but you will not get the MPG the 6.0L will get. Mainly because the variable vane turbo design of the 6.0.

1 major problem with all diesel today is the fuel. At the pump, you are not getting the correct Cetaine in the fuel. The Cetaine is what allows the fuel to keep injector pumps/fuel pumps/injectors properly lubricated. When you drop the Cetaine of the fuel, you dramatically shorten the life of the engine and the internal parts. I would highly recommend what ever diesel you end up with, every couple of fill ups add a good diesel fuel treatment to the tank. It will save you in the long run. As well as replacing and cleaning the fuel filter housing routinely. Allot of people forget these things, its not like your gas engine that "its not a big deal" if you don't change the filter but once every 50k miles....

Allot of the horror stories you hear about are from people who didn't and continue to not take care of their trucks. If you spend a little money here and there, and do things right. The 6.0L will last you along time. Just the other day, I had a regular customer had to bring his truck in. Its a F-550 dually tire service truck, it has 287k miles on it. Its an 04 and he had to put 2 injectors in it. Other than 2 clutches, and some a/c work. That is all the man has had to spend on this truck. Hell it even has a 15k lb hydraulic crane on it.... for lifting tractor and machine loader tires with.

If you find a truck you want, bring it by my shop BEFORE YOU BUY. And i will be glad to take a look at it/scan it/ and advise you on any thing we find. Pm me if you are interested

Thanks,
Cody

 

See, that seems totally reasonable to me.
buy the truck. spend a few grand on getting all of the little stuff done and have a great, ready to go truck.
That's not anywhere near as bad as "the internet" was making it out to be. they were talking like it would cost several times that much just to get the truck to the point where it wouldn't break down all of the time.

So Ideally, I'd be looking for a 2005 truck, in good shape.
OR a 03-04 truck that is about 4-5 grand less so I could put that money towards the fixes that need done and any cosmetic/cool stuff swaps.

What is the difference between the alison tranny and the "other one" (can't remember what that one's called) I remember people saying that the T-whatever tranny that came with the 6.0 was a really good tranny. Or am I thinking about the even newer trucks?
Cummins 24V rail? forgive the ignorance, what what's that? You talking about the fuel rail? Changing it from the dead head style to the return style with a pressure regulator? Don't have all of the details about it, but that is on the list of things I'd like to do when I get my truck. Since I'll be using it for work and at this point, plan on driving it into the ground, I'm kinda looking at this whole thing as a bit of an investment. So when I get the truck, I want to do all of those things to it, like the return style fuel rail, and the air separator for the fuel and all of that. So any suggestions on those things would be great. I really appreciate all of the info and insight. I'm taking all kinds of notes so I know what to be looking for/expecting/to do etc etc.
SCT? I'm not totally versed in the acronyms yet.
CAN tune being a "off the shelf" more or less generic tune, right? I wouldn't want to run on one of those all of the time. Over in the car world, I would use that kind of tune to get the car running enough to get it to the shop and on the dyno to get tuned for real. I'm assuming the diesel trucks would be the same way. With as many "big manly man trucks" I see driving around, I would imagine there is someone around here with a dyno and good tuning skill that would be able to fine tune it, right? Or is it more or less up to me to watch the AFRs and "street tune" it myself?
Martin at ZFever is the man when it comes to tuning Nissans. A few hours on the dyno with him and the tune is god sent. Anyone like that for the diesel truck world?
I'd rather take the time and get it done right the first time instead of rush through it so it is done now and just have to bo back and re-do it all when it breaks later.
Thanks, I'll check that out. I'll make sure Innovative Diesel is on my list of people to call in the very near future.
FICM?
20mpg would be pretty sweet.

thanks again man.
I'd rep you again, but gotta spread the love around more first.