suprapimpa

Well i guess something very odd like a huge change in events of a person is something to maybe send in, but to say that u should report everyone who looks like a terrorist in ur mind might be goin too far. So id say try to report people only if you have a very very strong notion that somethings up.

TurboJZA70

i would have to agree with regina, i have a bunch of indian friends and right after 9/11 almost all of them got harassed, most americans have no idea what to look for, they see dark (non black) people and instantly think terrerist.

Tripw0l

That doesn't bother me at all. While it may say that we can hold them indefinitely, it doesn't make them any more innocent to conspiracy or any other crime that they may be guilty to involving mass-murder. It bothers you personally because you feel as though "well if it can happen to them, it can happen to me!". True but this is where being realistic has to kick in, they're obviously being held for something even though our government doesn't need to explain why.

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they did this for a while in europe, it was called the german gestapo. bush's "patriot act" is a veiled attempt at fascism.

Sorry, the "gestapo" were used as henchmen to deal with the jews specifically in the ghetto. They were there as police, to drag out jews from their homes for transport to concentration camps etc. Not a very good similie, probably because you're not thinking rationally as is.

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and inline with Total Eclipse's idea of a coerced confession, TWO other charges were dropped in exchange for the plea. one was "conspiracy to levy war against the USA"; this carries the death penalty. maybe the guy didn't want to die.

Hence, plea bargain. Maybe they didn't have enough evidence to convict him of more extreme crimes such as "conspiracy to levy war against the USA" but they did have enough to convict him of "conspiring to help the Taliban". After all he did contribute $10,000 to an organization said to fund the Taliban. He might have even been given the option to rot in jail for the rest of his life for no given reason at all just like the other 44. I wish we could just cut through all the speculation and give opinions and act like adults. "Fuck the police" Ya, whatever. Anyone can be a keyboard hardass....what a waste, this conversation isn't even on your level of intelligence. Moldy hands, I agree with most of what you said but a little consideration and moderation might be a good idea before you reply to such a touchy topic like this one. Enough TRama.

-PJ

BRET

too bad you yourself are an example of it " most americans have no idea what to look for" sorry but there americans also.

Gunslinger09

Actualy they never offer a plea bargin to someone they can't convict in a Jury trial. What they did was offer this guy a way out of much harsher punishment in exchange for help in digging up the rest of the terrorist network. If you call telling a guy "look this is what we have on you evidence wise and you will go down for it unless you tell us who you else was involved with it you," coersion then you need to do a little research on how the legal system works. As far as holding people as material witnesses goes, the reason they are held is because they are refusing to to cooperate with an ongooing investigation. The FBI has did not just pick these people at random they are people known to associate with terrorists, the ones being held are refusing to make any statements.

Bill

I heard this on NPR a week or so ago and I still don't agree with it. The whole idea that the government can just pick me up and detain me based on secret evidence just rubs me the wrong way. But don't even start thinking that this is new. If you following the IT community news you'll realize there are quite a few cases "hackers" being treated much the same way *cough* Mitnick *cough*. I also find the confession to be suspect. There's no telling what went on behind closed doors, what threats were made, etc. to simply get the man to confess. I mean, come on now, in the government's overzealous attempts to round up all these purported terrorists, if they grab an innocent man and detain him for X amount of days, it would be quite a fiasco for them to just let 'em go and say, "Whoops...our mistake. Here's a please vote button and a pack of life-savers, continue on with your life."

Gunslinger09

Bill,

Do you know what is involved in a counter intell\counter terrorism investigation? They keep the evidence secret for a reason. Also the Judge must rule on weather or not the evidence can be kept secret, it isn't like the prosecuters and federal law enforcement has carte blanche to do exactly as the please. Also remember that the evidence must be presented to a Grand Jury to consider for indictment before any charges can be filed. I am confident in two things here, 1) there is sufficiant evidence agianst this guy to convict him, he did the crime. 2) The system works just fine in protecting every ones rights and the guy wasn't beaten with arubber hose to make him talk.

MartyMcfly

I'd be happy with two packs of life-savers and a box of condoms.

Political_Man

I want to remind everyone that virtually everyone, experts included, believed that other attacks on American soil were likely to begin after 9-11. We got lucky on Richard Reid, that's for sure but there has yet to have been a successful attack on America since 9-11. That's what I would say to both sides of the arguement here.

For those who would suggest something more aggressive I would point out that we've been successful in stopping attack, if it aint broke don't fix it.


To those who would complain about the tatics being used at the moment, I can only say that it's working and this won't last forever. There is no doubt that there are going to be some mistakes in this process but the government can't allow 9-11 to happen again, no matter what it takes.


My personal perference would be to see more harrassment at the borders so that we may allow some of our guests to enjoy themselfs once they get here and enjoy the rights that we normal citizens may enjoy.


For political reasons parties from both sides.have decided not to protect the borders the way they need to be corrected.