Taking it from the top without answering another threads questions:

The role of shock absorbers.......
Shock absorbers absorb the shocks encountered on a bumpy road, but are not intended to prevent the leaning of a car in a turn.

A shock absorber that is so stiff that it will not compress as a car leans in a turn, is also so stiff that it will not absorb the shocks of a bumpy road.

A shock absorber that is so stiff that it will not compress as a car leans in a turn, will transmit the jolt from bumps in the road to the body of the car.
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The role of springs.......
Springs are to support the weight of the car, and are not intended to prevent the leaning of a car in a turn.

A spring that is so stiff/hard that it will not compress as a car leans in a turn, is also so stiff that it will transmit the jolt from bumps in the road
to the body of the car.
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The role of anti-sway bars......
Anti sway bars are to keep a car from leaning in the turns.

An anti sway bar is not intended to support the weight of the car.

An anti sway bar is not intended to absorb the jolts/shocks from bumps in the road to the body of a car.-Bob

 

Bob, you're not 100% correct on shocks. (far from it)

Shocks DO control body roll. They're not just about "absorbing shocks". The classic British nomenclature that refers to them as "dampers" is much more accurate. Dampers control the movement of the suspension. That movement includes body roll.

If you have completely worn out shocks, any body roll that the springs and swaybars will allow to happen will be completely uncondrolled, "undamped". When you dive into a turn, the body will not just "roll", it will "flop" right over onto the bump stops. Maximum body roll instantly with the lightest flick of the steering wheel.

With good shocks, that motion is controlled or "damped". When you turn in, body roll will still happen, but the shocks keep it from happening too quickly, and you have to be REALLY cornering hard to bottom out the suspension.

With good high-performance shocks, the damping is normally set for greater "low-speed" "compression" damping. What does that mean? "Low speed" refers to the speed of the shock shaft. Low shock shaft speeds are what happens with steering inputs. "Compression damping" is what happens when the suspension compresses. The net result here is that when you turn-in, the outside shock RESISTS compressing thereby reducing body roll.

Those same high performance shocks will often also have "digressive" "high-speed" "compression" damping. Again, high-speed refers to piston shaft speed. High piston speeds happen when you hit a bump. The firm damping that we want for crisp turn-in and more controlled body roll gives way to softer damping as the piston speed goes up. So, when you're driving around on your fancy Bilstein shocks that feel awesome in the turns, those same shocks are capable of absorbing the big bumps when you go over railroad tracks or speed bumps a little too quickly.

 

Thank you for your opinion.-Bob

 

Oh and my opinion. Bob you've made it apparent you don't really have a grasp of what your talking about. Several times. I've been nice and let you ramble on incoherently thus far. But 1 you are obviously not qualified to be giving people suspension advice. And frankly putting people's lives in danger when you work on their car.

 

There are some people who believe that their opinion is the only one a person should hear and there should only be one side of the story.

However, this is a forum and it's my understanding that in a forum, people are allowed to state their opinion, whether the current moderator is in agreement with that opinion or not.

I think people are qualified to make their own decisions as to whether I have said anything that is untrue. I don't think the people participating in this forum should be required to pass a qualification test from the current
moderator to have an opinion or to read an opinion.Bob

 

I keep thinking about anit-roll bars or swaybars and their effects on suspension. Since it is tied in with the LCA's and is essentially a spring to keep both sides doing more of the same thing... wouldnt it act as an increase in spring rate? Think of the bar flexing and the force that needs to be applied for it to move. Well even in a straight line wouldnt the swaybar act as somewhat of a increase in spring rates?

 

You got it. A swaybar DOES add to the spring rate when the car is cornering. That's exactly how an engineer looks at it, they calculate the equivalent spring rate of the bar in torsion. But, as Bob said, the bar doesn't support the weight of the car. When the bar in its static condition (or when BOTH wheels hit the same bump, such as a speed bump or RR track), it does not add to the spring rate because there is no torsion or twist in the bar.

 

I still cant grasp why it wouldn't increase spring rate in a straight line when the cars suspension is compressed. I can't explain it in words but I can elaborate with a sway bar in my hands or showing someone what I see as happening when the suspension moves. If the bar is connected to the LCAs and the LCAs move up equally on both sides then what happens to the bar? Wouldnt it have to flex somewhere which would be equal if it did. And that flex is tension pushing the LCA back towards a rested state of the swaybar where it is not acted on? Damn my racing thoughts that I cannot figure out or get a grasp on. I completely understand it in a turn but not so much a straight line.

 

On a Honda, it's as you say...... the bar connects to the LCA on the right, goes back about 15 inches/some designs, crosses to the left side and goes forward about 15 inches to the LCA on the left.

At the back of the bar it pivots. The pivoting allows both ends to raise or lower as the LCA's raise or lower. Loren offers a good explanation that both he and agree with.-Bob

A further thought: some cars have an anti sway bar bolted direct to the rear
trailing arms, and for those bars, there is no separate mounted pivot. I believe
the best designs to have pivot points mounted to the car.


[quote=FoxHondaRider;8321313]..........If the bar is connected to the LCAs and the LCAs move up equally on both sides then what happens to the bar? ....................[quote]

 

Typed this late last night, but TR went offline and I couldn't post it:

If both sides of the suspension compress equally (you hit a bump with both wheels), the bar moves, but it does not TWIST. It simply rotates in its bushings that mount it to the chassis. (and if you happen to have poly bushings that aren't properly lubed, it'll probably squeak like a bitch... but otherwise you'd never know it was happening) It's the TWIST of the bar that induces spring rate that affects the suspension. No twist, no effect.

Remember, a swaybar is just a torsion bar with a lever at each end. Torsion = twist.

Now, a REALLY stiff swaybar will affect ride quality in a straight line. It does so whenever you hit a bump with one wheel. The shock of the impact on that one wheel, instead of being absorbed by that one corner of the suspension, is transferred to the other side of the car by that bar that refuses to twist because it's so stiff. But, as long as you're hitting the same bump with BOTH wheels... still no effect.