Hey guys just ordered some D2 coilovers from Gearhead, I have skunk 2 lower control arms, Im looking into getting an ASR subframe brace and maybe an ASR 24mm sway bar and some adjustable end links. With that suspension set up, would it be a viable auto cross car?

 

Is that a front or rear swaybar?

"A viable autocross car"... an Integra is that in stock form. The question is, do you have the experience to drive it fast?

I'm not being mean here, that's just the nature of autocross. You can throw parts at the car all day, but if you don't have the autox experience to drive the car, you won't be fast.

There's also a lot of setup and tuning involved. Just having hte parts doesn't mean you've set the car up correctly. There are more ways to set a car up WRONG than there are to set it up RIGHT!

You're better off to learn about setup and what setup is required to do what you want to do. By that, I mean alignment, spring rates, swaybar rates, suspension travel, things like that. What does the car NEED to handle well? THEN find the parts needed to deliver those specs and set the car up.

Again, not picking on you... just trying to help you avoid being another one of those kids who ends up saying "I've got this part, this part, this part, this part and that part... why doesn't my car handle?" You need to define the problems and solve them... not just throw money and parts at the car blindly.

Hint: "Too Low" and "Too Stiff" are very possible and are among the most common suspension problems.

 

Loren thanks for the response. And i dont think your picking on me. I have never auto crossed a day in my life. Though I enjoy driving fast in a straight line, I think thats just not for me, at least not completely for me. I have been watching auto cross videos for the last couple months, seems like smooth is fast and fast is smooth. And I do realize a few things, such as lower is not always better.

 

You're going in with the right mindset, then. I'd seriously consider doing an autocross or two (there's one on the 9th, register today if you want to get in!) with your car as it is. That will help you understand what the shortcomings of the car are, and you'll be able to tell a little better if your mods are "helping" or "hurting" you.

Without that baseline "testing", you could go out with your new suspension, feel great steering response and think that all is well... never realizing that the car understeers as much or more than it did when stock. In a nutshell, you need to calibrate your "butt dyno". The more experience you can gain, the easier it will be for you to dial in your setup. (it still won't be easy... but there are plenty of folks like me who are happy to point you in the right direction)

Good place to continue this discussion would be for you to tell us not just what parts are going on the car, but specifics about those parts (spring rates?) and how you intend to set the car up once they're installed.

 

FrontRearSpring Rate (kg/mm)15F/9R

Thats what i found for the spring rates on the D2 RS coilovers.

And these are some of the features listed on their site.

- 36-Way adjustable rebound and dampening
- Monotube high pressure design for fade free performance
- Custom spring rates from 3 to 22 kg/mm
- Teflon coated spring perch
- Vehicle drops of up to 120mm, 90-100mm on some applications
- 6061 powder coated aluminum camber plates and upper pillow ball mounts
- Includes keys for ride height adjustment
- CNC machined
- Fully rebuildable and serviceable in the United States
- 1 year limited warranty

 

I'm not a Honda guy, and not familiar with what kind of suspension is on your car off-hand, but those seem like REALLY stiff spring rates. For comparison, Ground Control recommends 380# front and 250# rear for their street setup. (usually gives pretty decent balance, but not overly harsh ride) That's 6.8 & 4.4 kg. You're over twice that in the front and about twice that in the rear. Should yield a super-stiff ride, and I would expect it would also understeer.

From the typical street setup, you'll want more rear spring for autocross to help combat the understeer of a FWD platform. You can make up for some of it with swaybar, but life is easier with stiffer rear springs.

The Tein RA kit, for instance (road race setup... more oversteer-biased than street, but not as extreme as you'd want for autocross) is 14/10. Compared to yours, a little softer in front, a little stiffer in the rear. Nice compromise for a net improvement in overall balance. Probably still way stiffer than you'd want to drive on the street, though.

You never answered if your swaybar was front or rear. If it's front, it's just going to make the understeer worse. Honestly, if you go with springs THAT stiff, you could get away with completely removing the front bar. (not uncommon on autocrossed Hondas) It's stiffer rear suspension that you want on a FWD car.

 

The sway bar i was talking about would be a rear sway bar, ASR sells a whole kit that includes the subframe brace, the swaybar and the endlinks. Here is a picture of the suspension set up I ordered. http://www.weaksauceparts.com/pictur...coilovers1.jpg

I was reading the online manual for the coilovers and it says do not adjust the two round parts directly beneath the spring. You are to turn the bottom round part that is connected to the part of the coilover that connects to the control arm. Would the top two round parts adjust spring rate?

 

The bottom part is the shock body. It is best to do your primary height adjustment by adjusting the shock body. (Caution: Don't make your shock body too long and lower the spring perch height... you can easily reduce your suspension travel while having what appears to be adequate ride height! Sit and ponder that while looking at your suspension until it makes sense. )

The upper adjustment is the spring perch height. It adjusts "spring preload". You want to adjust it up high enough that your springs have some tension on them and don't fall out of the perches under full droop. You can do minor height adjustment with preload, as well... but see the caution above. I usually like to set the shock height as short as possible and use preload to set the ride height. That way, you've got maximum suspension travel. Of course, there are instances when you wouldn't want to do that, and possible benefits to doing it other ways (like if you were running softer springs and using the bump stops as a "progressive rubber spring", like the stock Miata suspension does).

Rear swaybar is good, and I know the Hondas are known for breaking swaybar mounts with big bars, so the brace is a good idea, too.

To answer your last question: NO, you can't adjust spring rate. It is what it is. Only way to change it is to get another spring.

But, with your giant rear swaybar, I'd try what you have and see how it works. Odds are that you'll find the ride to be stupid stiff, and it will probably understeer just a little bit. Ultimately, you'll likely decide to fix both of those issues, and the way to do it would be to go down in front spring rate. Somewhere between 10 and 12kg would probably work well with your 9kg rears. Alternately, if you find the ride COMPLETELY too stiff, you could see if the 9k's will fit the front, and get something like 6 or 7kg for the rear.

 

Thanks for all the great advice Loren. Called Blaise at gearhead, and asked which spring rates he ordered, and he told me that they will be 10k in the front and 9k in the rear. Does that make any difference? I tried googling reccomended spring rates and couldnt really find aything. Thanks. Dave

 

10/9 is still a little on the stiff side, but should give a LOT better balance than 15/9. I would expect it to handle nicely. As long as you keep the shocks set fairly soft on the street, the ride might not be too bad.