smbstyle

Wow, what a day. I went with Chin on Sunday and had an absolute blast. I had a full 3 hours of total track time available to me, and was only able to get in about 2 and 1/2 (oil temps were getting a little over 300). My instructor was awesome, and the best part was he had the same exact car, he was my age, we went to school in the same area (Raleigh) so needless to say we got along great which definitely helped me relax a bit behind the wheel.

For weeks leading up to the event I watched Craigs video about 5 times a day (thanks again for doing that by the way), but the first lap around the track for me it was just sensory overload. I took it easy for the first session, getting used to the track, turn in points, etc. and then starting in the second session I started pushing it a bit harder. One thing I must say is this car held up great. Once I got comfortable with the car and the track, my instructor had me try later braking points using ABS braking, and I couldnt believe just how quick this 3800lb car could decelerate. Pads held up good, didnt get any brake fade even into the last session. By the next event I'd like to have an oil cooler and a decent harness setup; I was sliding around in the stock seats pretty good.

My only little "issue" I had on the track was turn 17. I learned the hard way that you really need to brake a good bit where the braking zone cones are, turn in towards that cone in the middle, straighten the wheel a little and brake some more, then make the full sweep around turn 17. I didnt scrub enough speed before turning in, and while turning in and moving towards that middle cone right before the bridge I realized I was carrying too much speed, so I tried to brake a bit (bad idea) and right at the corner workers station the back end came out and we went for a little ride, but I had the tires pointed in the direction of the slide and was looking into the slide, finally got the back end to settle and all was good. Definitely learned my lesson; a.) scrub more speed before turning in to turn 17 and b.) trailbraking is not for rookies. Could any of you Sebring guys go into detail on the best way to take turn 17? Watching the videos I can see the line, but it is hard to tell the braking points for turn 17.

Heres a video of my cleanest lap without traffic. I had the camera mounted on the driver's side front bumper, but for some reason there is a ton of wind noise and it started to fog up a little. I think I just didnt get a good enough seal on the GoPro when closing it in the case. Anyways, turn down the volume and enjoy. Feedback is appreciated! This lap was a 2:49.8.

YouTube - Sebring lap in 2004 CTS-V

I cannot wait to get back onto the track, I am addicted.

VenWood

Move farther right & turn in later at carousel. Turn in earlier at hair pin. At 17 i start further on the left before the jersey barrier & then almost clip it with my right mirror to brake in a straight line before turning in. The second way is to take your line & brake straight with a more severe turn in, this lets you carry speed deeper. Everyone has there own lines for comfort/car, race/qualifying/hpde.

smbstyle

great feedback, thank you! at 17, before turning in towards the jersey barrier, are you braking at all, or just braking after you straighten out before turn-in?

Car54

Glad you had a good time! I'm heading down with Chin on March 26/27, registration opens next Monday at 10pm.

smbstyle

you know, since I only live like an hour and 15 minutes away, I think I'll come down for most of Chin's Sebring events even when I wont be running the car. I wouldnt mind just paying my 20 bucks to register as a passenger and grab a ride with an instructor, just to get more experience on the track even if it isnt behind the wheel.

It probably wont be until the Fall that I run Sebring again with the V, just because I'd like to get new pads, the rotors are on their way out, and get an oil cooler. Maybe if I can swing it, even a harness setup. Are 4-points any good just for DEs, without having a cage? My instructor had a 4-point in his CTS-V, with attachment points where the rear seat belt anchors are. It worked out fairly well and held me in a lot better. Or just get a CG Lock...

Also, Craig, can you comment on my video I posted? my lines, turn-in points, etc, and would like to hear from you the best ways to take turn 17, or how a 3800lb torquey sedan should take it, lol. That is the one turn that seems the most complicated to me.

LDadrenaline

Going to disagree with the turn in later for the carousel comment, I think your line looks fine through there. You are smoothing it out and making it one nice arc instead of having to turn the wheel more sharply and upset the front tires trying to turn in later. In the hairpin I think you could turn in a little sooner with slower wheel action and use those inside rumbles to give you an extra foot or two of track. turn 10 you can also turn in earlier with more entry speed. 17 regardless of if you stay out by the brake cones and follow the white line (The "DE line") or go in brushing your mirror on the wall, you want to get out to that white line and turn in right around where the cone was out there (if you look down, there is an old fading white line intersecting with the clearly visible white line right there). Your distance off the wall in the turn itself was good, but you started pinching your exit to get to that second apex cone past the bridge.... forget about that second cone. try to release the hands as early as possible and let the car track out all the way to the outside wall. Lets you roll onto power more smoothly and earlier.

Car54

Sounds good about late March, look for me if you come down.

I see a lot of guys running the Schroth ASM 4-pt. I wouldn't try to run anything else. Use them exactly as designed and they're safe...and legal. You'll need a pair of them. I would try the seat belt inertia lock trick first. I wouldn't want to run a CG Lock on track..I don't like that much metal near a hip bone when there is probability of a high speed impact.

As for T17, looks like you're taking more of a racing line through there where you don't want to get passed. I brake a little (too much IMHO) at the brake markers, just enough to make the radius from turn in to my second braking point directly towards the Skip Barber building. I'm actually loading the suspension on the first turn in. Straighten the wheel, brake, then turn in again, get close on the inside around the corner worker station, then use all the track on exit. If you did this in a race, in traffic, you'd be passed every lap....but it's a pretty safe school line because you're practicing more brake/steer/brake/steer/accelerate. The other way is just mechanical grip and the right damper settings. (I completely over simplified that last statement) If anything, I think the lighter/lower hp cars would want more of your line, and the heavier car would want to carry speed in, lose it and turn, then accelerate out.

PS...put the camera in the car next time! Reviewing your actions in the car will teach you more than just the car's path.

Loren

I've always driven Sebring in "momentum cars", and I know that the "high power line" is different. The line I take covers less distance and stays out of the bumpy stuff. It really sounds a lot like the line your instructor was trying to get you on, it is probably the safest line for newbs.

I always do a two-stage brake. I brake STRAIGHT and FAR LEFT at the end of the straight. I don't try to push that braking zone, usually brake at the 4th or 3rd cone. With sufficient tires, most cars can probably skip this first braking zone, but I find it to be a great confidence-builder to know that you've got brakes that early in the game!

After scrubbing off "some" speed, make your initial turn in toward the end of the wall. As Ven said, try to scrape your mirror on the wall. (you can even things up when you scrape the left mirror on the wall at turn 1) As you're driving STRAIGHT past the wall, stab the brakes again to reach proper turn in speed for the sharper second turn-in. As much as you can, you want to try to make the "perfect" turn-in so that you can hold a steady arc with minimal correction around the rest of 17, clip the exit apex at the grass near the corner worker station, and then accelerate out toward the track-out.

Faster cars will take a line where they're blowing off that first turn-in, carrying their speed deeper into the turn (trusting their brakes a lot more!) doing a single turn-in with a fairly early apex that allows them to get on the gas much sooner and gain more speed through the front straight into turn 1. It's a really ballsy line, and I think it's only necessary for those cars that have enough power to make it work. It's also harder on the suspension, because it takes you through the roughest part of 17.

There are other lines through 17. Variants of both of the above, and probably a few more that I haven't thought of yet! And if you ever get into racing, you'll want to experiment with a lot of different lines because "your line" won't always be available to take, or you'll want to try to pass there or whatever. But, for DE, just find a line that you're comfortable with and keep honing it.

Turn 16 is the one that always challenged me. In a slow car, you learn quickly that botching 16 really affects your speed in the long straight! This was driven home for me when I had a bone stock 1.6 Miata ahead of me in my mildly modded 1.8 Miata... he FLEW through 16 and I never did catch him!

smbstyle

Yeah I noticed that I might have been loosing some speed into turn 7 by turning in so late, and see what you mean by me turning in late and heavy steering input. definitely would be smoother and faster turning in a little earlier and more gradual steeling input. Also, that is one thing I noticed on turn 17, that I was losing a lot of momentum trying to hit that second corner, where I probably could have swung out wider and carried more momentum based on the line I was driving.

I will definitely be getting that Schroth ASM 4 point, great price too!

Good points on turn 17. What I did the time that I went sideways on turn 17 was I didnt even really touch the brakes through the first braking zone, and right after the braking zone instead of turning directly towards the Skip Barber bulding/middle cone, I tried to make a progressive sweeping turn around turn 17, kind of following that white line around, realized I had too much speed, and tried to brake while making the sweeping turn, causing the back end to get light and come out. Next time out I will be trying the brake, turn, straighten out, brake then turn-in and accelerate.

that pretty much describes how I lost in in 17, lol. For those who know what theyre doing, seems like a good turn where they can trailbrake... not I.

And I noticed that I might have been sweeping out a bit too wide before turning in for 16? I feel like I was very slow through 16 and way wide for how slow I was going.

By the way, I must say you all are awesome and just from that previous thread I started about the Chin event, with everyones comments and suggestions, I felt much more confident going into the event which truly made it more enjoyable. My driving instructor said I was an easy student, lol.

chi town brat

Interesting note on the oil temps. Thanks for the info.