Let's have a good debate thread...


How much does brand name matter? To keep things simple, lets only talk sound quality, only speakers and amps, and only the major market 'good' brands like Alpine, Rockford, Kicker, JL, Crossfire, Eclipse, etc. We won't consider the bottom end Bumper, Thumper, Rockwood, etc., and let's not go way up the Focal or Morel trees to the big bucks stuff, either.

I believe that, given these parameters, brand choice matters very little. I'd be willing to bet that if I set up a blind test of say, 6 1/2's...same enclosure, same power level, same room, etc...that very few, if any of us, could name the brands. I think the same would hold true for amps, and probably subs. We could tell what sounds better or worse to us, which would be interesting in itself...what if our favorite brand doesn't sound the best ?!?!

Further, I think that install quality (integrity, placement, crossover choice, etc.) plays a much more significant role in sound quality than brand. Look at the 'big 3'...Gary Biggs, Mark Eldridge, and Alma Gates...they win with JBL, they used to win with kicker, and I bet if Rockford, or JL, or Kenwood, or Alpine picked up the tab, they'd win with them, as well. I've personally won with Orion, JBL, Morel, Peerless, Pyle (yep, pyle), Redline, Precison Power, Rockford, Hifonics, and probably a couple others I just can't remember. I also once lost to a truck with all Pyramid...and it sounded damn good, too.

I went with Crossfire as the dominant line for my shop. Mainly, because no one else around here has it. If I had JL, or Rockford, I'd just get caught in price wars. If it will ultimately be decided on install and sound quality, I will win or lose that battle with Crossfire just the same as if I had JL (I personally think that JL has some of the best engineered products on the market, by the way).

Look at the other major shops...how much better are Sound Advice cars now that they have JL? What if JL went in to Bestbuy? Would they suddenly be world beaters? You CC guys...has eclipse made any difference, other than the 'brand loyal' will come buy it?

I also saw Hifonics get destroyed, at least locally, just because someone started buying it at a local shop, and selling it at the Flea Market. It soon became known as 'flea market stuff', and no one wanted it. This was in the pre Maxxsonics days, when Hifonics was good stuff.

I'm not throwing rocks at anyone for their brand loyalty. I'm just saying that decisions shouldn't be made on brand alone. I'll also conceed that some brands have unique products...shallow subs, bigger amps, etc., but that's not part of this debate.

Thoughts?

Toby

 

What do you mean? Sound Advice has carried JL for as long as I can remember. They've always carried "higher" end products, but I think that's only one of the reasons for their success. Alot rides on the installers though. Every installer I know who works there has been an installer for over 5 years...most over 10 years....and some over 20 years.

Brand names are important, but not everything. Personally, I want a product that I know is tried and true, and a company that stands behind that product. I'm sure there's cheapy equipment out there that could be hard to tell apart from higher priced equipment, but that alone still wouldn't necessarily sway me to go with it. Kind of like a Kia may have all the features and specs of a Nissan, but I would still never buy a Kia.

 

that about sums it up

 

I thought the sound advice JL relationship was fairly new...I stand corrected. I never meant to say that Sound Advice didn't have nice stuff, or do nice work. My point was, that the sound quality of their installs is probably not any better with JL, than it was before they had it. I can remember when their big brands were rockford, Yamaha, and Sony.


That's why I said only to consider the mainstream, recognized brands, so we wouldn't have to have Kia's and Nissan's in the same group...more Nissans and Toyota's. I also said we were only considering sound quality, so your points about features and warranty don't apply here.


Toby

 

I'm going to have to agree, for right now in my car, i have some rather... cheap panasonics in my front door panels and they sound amazingly good much much worth the 60 bucks i bought them for, and im actually planning on keeping them (putting in my sister's honda).

Sometimes people ride too much on brand, i agree. We need to stop going on this same railroad track of buying all the same stuff because of 'brand loyalty'. I like listening in on the sort of stuff EVERYONE has to offer, even brands i never heard of! It sure is interesting to hear new stuff thats off the unpaved trail, could lead to something better and save you a few bucks!

for the record i currently have in my system --

Alpine CDE-9845 Headunit
Panasonic 5x7 front speakers (i dont know actual name, i bought them from CC, they dont carry it anymore from what i know)
((I am replacing these with Infinity Kappa 682.7CF's once i get my car's radiator problem fixed))
Infinity Reference 9613i Rear speakers (i love these things)
BOSS Riot GT2500D Monoblock Amp (actually pretty good =O)
Polk db 212-2 ported subwoofer box + 2 12's (prebuilt)

yeah thats basically it.

And i'll tell you what, most of my stuff is rather inexpensive, some brands are known for lower-middle class. But you know.. people have told me they sound good. To me it sounds decent, and I'm happy with the way it has come out sounding.

(plus the satisfaction knowing i wired it all by myself with no real previous knowledge at all)

 

Well yeah, it'd be very hard for everyone to literally name the brand of ANY equipment by sound. I've worked with JL amps for about 5 years and I know that there isnt a "JL" sound that you can pick up. It's not like you can hear "booom..........jl" or anythign of the sort.

Furthermore, the one test would be flawed at enclosure, not to mention t/s for power and efficency. Comparable subs can perform different in identical volumes, and power.

Amps are a whole different ballpark. Boiled down, and amp should be an amp should be an amp. the nuts and bolts of circuity are going to be roughly the same inside every amp ont he market today, and with all filtering and equing off of the signal every amp SHOULD sound the same. IE: richard clark amp challenge. Almplificationof power is simple electircal engineering. Anyone with any idea of how electornics work could build one with a radio shack catalog, parts list, and soldering iron. Would it work? Probably (unless I built it, then it'd end up half finished and me missing a fingerprint ) As they say, the devil is in the details. Quality of materials, and engineering behind certain components of the amp that make it stand out. If I put my hand made amp in my truck, would it last more than a trip down the road? Who knows. Will the brand name? Of course. Will the off brand? Probably. But then it comes into "How long" If my Jl dies, I can send it back. If my rockwood dies, well I'm out 100 bucks. Ok who am I kidding, 12.50.

But that's all trivial. SOUND is what we are after. Could I hear the difference in the brands on the same power and same enclosures? No. Would I guess and probably get 30 percent right? Sure. Would I pick my least favorite brand and associte it with whatever one sounds the worst? Of course.

 

Yeah, they haven't carried any of that stuff in atleast 5 years. And I don't know to what degree the sound quality in SA systems may be better since carrying JL, but I do know it's easily the number one seller in the mobile department and an excellent business decision. Like most companies, SA makes business decisions on money...not necessarily what "sounds the best." Customers come to expect higher end products and they know JL's reputation. I'm willing to bet even if there was a pair of Sony subs that sounded as good, they wouldn't sell half as fast as the JLs.




So then what brands might be included in your discussion? Comparing say Panasonic and Alpine would be like considering Kia and Nissan to me. Far bands of the spectrum would be something like Yugos and Mercedes to Pyle and Focal. Either way, a name brand carries reputation, and proven performance. I totally agree that a large percentage depends on the install, but making a bunch of Pyle equipment sound "good" could be compared to making a Honda Civic run 12's when you could run the same time in a stock Z06. Sure, the guy with the civic will get respect and open some eyes, but at the end of the day, I'm willing to bet most people would still rather have the Z06....just because it's a Z06. Tried and true.

 

I'd rock a kia.

 

i did rock a kia- good friend had one - all alpine v12's
2 orion 12 dvc in bandpass ported thru read deck
alpine deck
quart mid & highs
surprising the car was built well, everything came apart without breaking and went back together and still fit..

 

Speaker placement....speaker placement...speaker placement...if you don't have that you are not going to have much with any speaker you use. I have heard cars with "low end" product sound fantastic due to proper speaker placement and tuning. I have heard three times as many cars with "high end" equipment sound like shit. I bet Toby remembers Tyrone Chestnut and the Earl Zausmeyer (I doubt I spelled that correctly) guy with the BMW. Tyrone had an Acura Lengend with a very simple system in it. Nobody could beat the guy because it was so well put together. Earl Zausmeyer had these obnoxious 15k speakers in the front of his car. Tyrone and I listened to his car at IASCA finals...we both were like WTF? IT sounded horrible. That was just one example.

Now taken into account a good install with proper speaker placement,tuning, and overall high quality. I will take a high end product because I know that product will perform flawlessly for years.