Competitive Cars in Autocross

[Rosko]

If all goes as I've planned, I'll be looking for a new (used) car in the next few months. Obviously, I'm looking for something that can be competitive in its class in autocross. I've had a good idea of what I want for a while, but thought I'd hit you guys with this question well in advance of my purchase. What car would you get provided these few conditions?

This will be my only car, driven daily.
Rear wheel drive.
$22K or less.
Prefer coupe, non-convertible.
Less than four years old.

[PseudoRealityX]

E46 300Ci
Lexus IS300
Mustang (Bullit or Mach1 being the better choices)
Camaro

That's about it that fills your needs. The top 2 run in DS, and the bottom 2 are in FS. The IS300 will more than likely be the easiest on tires, which WILL become a concern if you're at all serious.

[Mars_302]

I think Cobras get lumped into AS, at least the 03 cobras, and you cant get one for under 22k yet either. I would do the Bullit over the Mach 1. Im pretty sure it has a better factory suspension aka slightly stiffer than the Mach 1. And if warranty is a concern you are better off getting an 04 Mach 1 or 04 GT. Anything else is too old and wont have one unless for some crazy reason you can find a low mile 02 Camaro.

The previous gen Mustang you can get dirt now since they are moving them out for the new generation. You can pick up a 98-00 Z28 camaro really damn cheap, probably 10k or under easy.

I love my mustang, but the Camaro has a better setup to start with from the factory.

[PseudoRealityX]

the Mach1 is faster than the Bullit. And Cobras are a terrible choice, as are SS Camaros.

[Muddy]

You might be able to find a 2001 330ci for ~$22k, but I think the best choice of the bunch is the IS300.

[Rosko]

Any other suggestions? It's a bit strange that nobody has mentioned the 350Z or the RX-8, the two cars I've thought about the most.

The BMW 330Ci is nice, but it seems marginal in the HP : Weight ratio. From a performance perspective only, I never thought it was much more than 1 step (maybe 2) better than my 6 - with the edge going to it because of balance and RWD. Is it really comptetive in its class? Same story with the IS300. I very much like both these cars, so don't think I'm disrespecting them.

I never would've considered a muscle car like the Mustang until the first event of the year in Brooksville. That guy with the gold 98 Camaro showed what a good driver can do with American power - and presumably some good tires!

What do you think about the 350Z and RX-8?

[Leonard]

Any other suggestions? It's a bit strange that nobody has mentioned the 350Z or the RX-8, the two cars I've thought about the most.



What do you think about the 350Z and RX-8?



I don't think either is within your budget. Beyond that, you said you wanted to be competative.

[Mars_302]

the Mach1 is faster than the Bullit. And Cobras are a terrible choice, as are SS Camaros.

Mach 1s have more power, but like I said I dont think they got the same suspension setup as the Bullits did. Bullits got stiffer shocks/struts, stiffer and slightly lower springs and bigger sway bars over the regular GTs, plus the got a better intake and increase of 10 hp from it,

What so bad about the SS though? Or does that get bumped to AS with the S2000s?

Honestly, pickup a Miata or a Neon for real cheap and make that your auto-x car.

[Rosko]

I don't think either is within your budget. Beyond that, you said you wanted to be competative

Oh, okay. They're not competitive. That's the kind of insight I can appreciate. What cars are competitive in B Stock, just out of curiosity?

By the way, you'd be surprised what 22k will buy. I hope these long links work, but if they don't, all these cars are 22k or under.

RX-8
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=175742171&dealer_id=84647&car_year=2004&search_type=used&make=MAZDA&transmission=Manual&model=RX8&distance=300&address=33543&make2=&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=22000&min_price=1&end_year=2006&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=106

350Z
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=176928260&dealer_id=7807217&car_year=2003&search_type=used&make=NISSAN&transmission=Manual&model=350Z&distance=300&address=33543&make2=&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=22000&min_price=1&end_year=2006&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=34

Impreza WRX
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=177803885&dealer_id=54510528&car_year=2004&search_type=used&make=SUB&transmission=Manual&model=IMPREZ&distance=300&address=33543&make2=&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=22000&min_price=1&end_year=2006&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=65

Boxster
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=170149754&dealer_id=562480&car_year=2000&search_type=used&make=POR&transmission=Manual&model=BOXSTE&distance=300&address=33543&make2=&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=22000&min_price=1&end_year=2006&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&isp=y&engine=&doors=&fuel=&lang=en&cardist=55

[mofugga]

a boxter at $22k is a great deal until it needs an oil change, they'e $600 :eek:

[PseudoRealityX]

Mars_302: The Mach1 is faster. This comes from guys who've raced Mustangs for the last 5 years and had Bullits, and then bought Mach1s. They're faster. I don't know why exactly, but they are.

The SS goes to BS.



The 350Z and RX8 should now be pretty competitive in the new BS. BUt if you're worried about straight line performance, I don't see how you can say yes to a RX8 and no to a 330ci or IS300. They're fairly close...

[Rosko]

Honestly, pickup a Miata or a Neon for real cheap and make that your auto-x car.

Miatas are great. They're hard to resist, but convertibles just aren't my thing.
Neon? I'm tempted to say something disparaging, but I won't. Okay, I can't help it! :gay:

a boxter at $22k is a great deal until it needs an oil change, they'e $600

Yeah, I can imagine they are expensive to maintain. I was just trying to make the point that you can buy vehicles perceived as expensive or impractical for less than you think, but you should expect to make concessions.

The 350Z and RX8 should now be pretty competitive in the new BS. BUt if you're worried about straight line performance, I don't see how you can say yes to a RX8 and no to a 330ci or IS300. They're fairly close...

I'm not sure I'd say yes to a RX-8. I was just surprised nobody brought it up. But you are correct. I would've unjustifiably thought about it before the BMW. Thanks for setting me straight. Straight line performance isn't everything, but power in reserve is nice, huh? Of the 4 cars you mentioned the BMW sounds the most appealing. I have a friend with a new 330 with some kind of performance package. :love: Of all things, I pine for its M3 steering wheel the most. By the way, I did check, and you can get a 2001 for around 22k. You orginally said "300Ci". Did you mean 330Ci? Or is this 300Ci some kind of technical specification?

Speaking of Nissan... The 350Z is the car that I practically have set in my mind. It has all that power, and agility to boot. I made this post because I've become too single-minded.

[PseudoRealityX]

330Ci is what I meant.


You said competitive, but you didn't say WHERE you want it to be competitive. Locally, or bigger stuff. Locally, get whatever floats your boat, and if you can drive, you'll be in the running. If you have bigger aspirations, get a proven model.

I don't like 350Z's, but that's me. It's an unpractical japanese camaro without as much power IMO.... but whatever floats your boat.

[Muddy]

I don't like 350Z's, but that's me. It's an unpractical japanese camaro without as much power IMO.... but whatever floats your boat.
What is it about you and japanese camaros? :lol:

[PseudoRealityX]

hush you!

[Rosko]

Is a M3 a Bavarian Camaro?

I figured I'd get a lot more suggestions than this. Anyone else have any input?

[w0rd]

How about an Australian Camaro?
http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=178713839

[Mars_302]

Thats cheap and a nice car. I think 04 was the last year of the LS1 motor though.

[Blueboost]

Speaking of Nissan... The 350Z is the car

You said it yourself.

plus tons of aftermarket support, including extremely well engineered suspension options, great powertrain...

You know what I would pick ;)

[PseudoRealityX]

You said "COMPETITIVE". That limits the choices greatly. If you want a fun coupe in your price range, that's a different ballgame, but you said competitive. There are only 9 stock classes. And within each of those, there's only usually at most 2-3 cars that are really competitive. And then you further narrowed it down with it having to be in a certain price range (byebye SS), non-convertible (byebye AS, CS, ES), RWD (byebye HS, GS), and less than 4 years old(byebye BS). You're only 2 choices are DS and FS, and those I gave the top cars in each of those classes that coincide with your criteria.

If you don't like the choices, maybe then you should post in the general chat section.

[Slash]

You said "COMPETITIVE". That limits the choices greatly. If you want a fun coupe in your price range, that's a different ballgame, but you said competitive. There are only 9 stock classes. And within each of those, there's only usually at most 2-3 cars that are really competitive. And then you further narrowed it down with it having to be in a certain price range (byebye SS), non-convertible (byebye AS, CS, ES), RWD (byebye HS, GS), and less than 4 years old(byebye BS). You're only 2 choices are DS and FS, and those I gave the top cars in each of those classes that coincide with your criteria.

If you don't like the choices, maybe then you should post in the general chat section.
:owned: :owned2:

[oilleak]

You said "COMPETITIVE". and less than 4 years old(byebye BS).
Wait a minite there, Isn't the RX8 thought to be a legit BS contender?

[Blueboost]

E46 300Ci
Lexus IS300
Mustang (Bullit or Mach1 being the better choices)
Camaro

350Z has as much potential as any of those cars IMO. I wouldn't want the stang or camaro. IS300 is nice, and I could spank a 330Ci with my specV if they'd allow me to :lol:

http://www.jgtc.net/race/2004/04rd1/041qual_ph/0403a022.jpg

[Leonard]

350Z has as much potential as any of those cars IMO. I wouldn't want the stang or camaro. IS300 is nice, and I could spank a 330Ci with my specV if they'd allow me to :lol:

http://www.jgtc.net/race/2004/04rd1/041qual_ph/0403a022.jpg

The 350Z is underpowered for it's weight.

Your specV is FWD. It doesn't meet the original requirements.

[Blueboost]

The 350Z is underpowered for it's weight.

Your specV is FWD. It doesn't meet the original requirements.


I was teasing Pseudo, he's obviously a BMW fan :lol:


A little tuning to the Z would go a long way (I agree its underpowered a bit), would he still be able to stay in the same class?

[Leonard]

A little tuning and you're not in stock classes anymore. It's more than a bit underpowered.

[Blueboost]

A little tuning and you're not in stock classes anymore. It's more than a bit underpowered.

He didn't say anything about keeping it stock though.

The Z has more HP then the 330Ci (235 hp) and the IS300 (215 hp) which were his other choices, so I'm not following your train of thought. :dunno:

[w0rd]

so I'm not following your train of thought. :dunno:
We're talking about autocross. They're not even in the same class.

[Rosko]

Okay, with no conditions, not $ or RWD, convertible or otherwise ... What cars are considered the most competitive in their class? ... Just for discussion's sake.

w0rd: The Australian Camaro is intriguing. I drove one at the Autoshow in Motion last year, and I was more impressed and surprised by it than any car there.

blueboost: Yes, I'm afraid I mark out to Nissan as well. I had a '94 Pathfinder that I beat up for 8 years and 160,000 miles with zero problems. Best vehicle I've ever owned. If Nissan had worked on the interior and the suspension of the Altima 3.5SE, I'd have one of those in my garage instead of my 6, but alas, they did that the following year <sigh>.

As for modifying the 350z (or whichever car I buy), I guess that's a possibility, but being that I'm a substandard driver, I'm not convinced I could take advantage of any aftermarket items, let alone the Z itself. One could argue that I should keep my 6, and learn how to drive better with it - improve the driver not the car, so the old saying goes. However, it seems to me that learning how to drive in a decent performance car is a better idea - or if nothing else, a funner idea.

[OversteerS2K]

Stock:
SS-Porsche GT3 & C5 Corvette Z06. It remains to be seen which will prevail.
AS-C4 'Vette, Boxster-S, S-2000, E46 M3 CSL (and maybe an Evo or Sti on a slick and/or wet surface).
BS-RX-8, 944 S2, 968, Mr2T, E36M3.
CS-'99 Miata Sport Pack., Mr2S w/LSD
DS- ITR, 330, IS300
ES- Mr2 n/a, '94 Miata w/right options (ask Jesse for specifics)
FS- Mach1, Bullit (the new GT may have potential)
GS- '05 Mini-S, current Celica GT, '05 RSX-S
HS- Mini, Audi 90


Competitive where is the biggest question? If you just want to win your class locally than H-Stock is wide open - buy a Mini and try to butch it up a bit, huh..


I've read through this thread and just want to say that the Z is a poor choice as an autocrosser. Yes, you can mod it and end up in B Street Prepared where it'll still get smoked by the C4 'Vette (and probably the S2000 too). The Z isn't that competitive and once you graduate to race rubber it'll requite a hitch and trailer. It eats up front tires due to the lack of available front negative camber and the insurance rates are high.

SS is out, based on price.
In AS the S2000 and '04 (back) Boxster-S will only be competitive with a top level driver. The C4 will dominate at most venues but it's too old for you.

Then there's BS. Under your origional parameters I'd say you'd be o.k. in a RX-8. If you can stand the rotary racket and the hurrendous gas mileage they'll be a competitive B-Stock car and once your driving is up to snuff there are many aftermarket parts available to make it faster under stock rules (double adjustable dampers, adjustable front sway bars, and titanium exhausts). You can put a set of wheels in the back seat and still have an entire trunk left over (+carry a passenger). You can find one in the low 20's and still finance it for 60-72 mos. Insurance isn't too bad since it's a 2+2 and a 1.3L.

Skip CS if you're not into convertibles or Miata's.

DS, well ITR's (especially unmodded and abused) are few & far between. The IS300 & 300 would be great daily drivers and still are plenty fast on the autocross course...

FS, get a new Mustang GT for 24ish and be one of the only guys around with one. I think it'll be a good FS car but I hear there may be a 1/2" wider wheel on it for '06.
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[OversteerS2K]

And the RX-8 can run, legally, with 17's or 18's. There are a lot of tire choices available.

[jaball77]

350Z has as much potential as any of those cars IMO. I wouldn't want the stang or camaro. IS300 is nice, and I could spank a 330Ci with my specV if they'd allow me to :lol:


The 330 is really one of those cars that's more than the sum of its parts... Only 225hp, and McPherson struts? Sounds like a piece of junk! But then you drive one, and OMG...

Something magical about BMW... They take a 3200lb car with 225hp and make it go 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. And they make a strut-equipped car handle beautifully and give it a perfect ride. :-)

It sounds I'm a sackrider, but I've driven both an e46 328 and e46 330i Perf Pkg... They really ARE magical.

If I wasn't poor, and wasn't too lazy to change tires, I'd own a 330 and run it in DS. :-)

[PseudoRealityX]

I'm gonna modify the list a little bit...

Stock:
SS-Porsche GT3 & C5 Corvette Z06. It remains to be seen which will prevail.
AS-C4 'Vette, Boxster-S, S-2000, E46 M3 CSL (and maybe an Evo or Sti on a slick and/or wet surface, EVO RS looks good on paper).
BS-RX-8, 944 S2, 968, Mr2T, E36M3, 350Z
CS-'99 Miata Sport Pack., Mr2S wOUT/LSD*** the non-LSD cars are better
DS- Integra Type R, BMW 330ci, IS300
ES- '91-'95 Mr2 n/a, '94 Miata w/right options, (any '94-'97 R package is the car to have)
FS- Mach1, Bullit (the new GT may have potential), late model Camaro Z28
GS- '05 Mini-S, current Celica GT (well sorted ACR Neon might still hang)
HS- Mini, Audi 90, '89-'91 Honda Civic Si, BMW E36 318is

_



Also of note...

Spec Vs are not competitive. Anyone who says they are is ignorant and shouldn't be listened to. ;)


If you like the 350Z, go for it. B-stock is full of cars that either haven't even been tested at the National level, or cars that used to be competitive years before, but have been classed differently since then.