the 2nd one is a Phat KA-T (now AMS) manifold. their downpipe actually is efficient and very smooth, but a properly designed 3" downpipe off of a top mount can still be pretty smooth, and comparing the two, it's not entirely much of a difference.

the phat ka-t manifold is a bitch and a half to work around though, esp when hot. mounting top or bottom is all about packaging. anyone with enough R&D and space can make an efficient turbo manifold that mounts under the oil pan if they wanted to, but people trying to sell mass produced manifolds take into consideration tool clearances, hot handling, space requirements, etc.

i'm not even sure what the argument here is anymore :gordy:

i'll just enjoy my log, it flows well enough and it won't ever break, and i can reach everything i want, even when hot. but i do miss that 25-40hp up top LOL...ah well.