it's understood but really mtbers arguement should have only went so far and throughout the entire thread he contradicts himself alot. and does a good bit of editing his posts. Alpha ay or may have not done something wrong,unethical,illegal, etc but there still has been not one complaint from a direct source. the only complaint is mtbers and its really making him look bad and this is where its not gonna help either of their businesses. BTW anyone need their car tuned with eCtune? i thinking about buying into it...lol