How in the fuck do the times one's car runs dictate whether or not they know the car business? Saying shit like that tells me you really don't have a clue. Manhiem auction report is great for getting a ballpark figure, but they don't have pictures, you have to go on what someone else thinks the condition is (usually some lot porter at the auction ) All the auctions also mail out results, which lists condition absolutely nowhere, only miles, options (if they weren't too lazy to put them in), and what it sold for. To really know what they go for, you need to be there, see the condition yourself, and watch it sell. I do this, and I promise you, nice ones are not going anywhere near rough. It's funny that we are even arguing this, I'm arguing based on what I've stood right in the auction lane and witnessed in person, and you are arguing based on what you read on a web site, yes, you truly do know what you are doing. This really is pointless.....................