touche'

 

slow306stang, your one of the elite of TR, someone that knows what the fuck he is talking about.

 

lol...you guys both make valid arguements in my opinion...the reason I started tuning 4 bangers rather than continuing to rock the old 70 charger or my 79 stang was because a 650+ horsepower 4 banger is more drivable on the street than a rwd v8 with the same thing...n/a cars tend to have a much quicker pickup on torque and power than turbo charged engines...simply because it's all motor and has nothing to really spool. I wanted a fast car I could drive when we get those crappy half ass rain drizzles that wet the roads just enough to bring the oil out of the pores of the asphalt...and as long as I make a conscious effort to mind the throttle position my car will stay around the 300-350hp range without spooling into tire melting madness when road conditions arent perfect.

Manufacturers first started turbo charging small displacement engines when emissions control became the governments whipping boy. It yielded similar potential power and in most cases...more power than the buckled down v8's of it's time. Now adays I tune 4 bangers...not because I should...but because I could.

Looking at your stang I know that's nothing I want to compete with and if you had a few more grand to toss at the engine you'd be well beyond my dsm...like other wordly beyond...but it's still funny spanking a stock svt cobra from one red light to the next just to roll down the window...smile...and say 2 liter before I'm gone again.

I just enjoy engines period...large or small displacement, doesnt matter...you can make them both breath taking in their own respect.

To me? this is more amazing than my 4g63t - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mutb7KgA9NM

 

i agree with what your saying, it just doesnt fit into this topic. we're talking race engines...who cares about street driving. But i see stock 600+ V8 rwd cars from a lot of companies so it must not be THAT hard to drive one...its called throttle control. Your stating opinions (witch is fine) and we're talking facts.

 

yeah, there are a lot of those kinds of cars out there and all of that, but now you're not taking into account the cost of those cars.
What does a 600 hp corvette cost?
That same money would yield a lighter, just as good, if not better handling 240, with the same power to the wheels, and still have money left over to pay for insurance.

Facts vs Opinions is a tough argument to try and stand by.
Isn't the whole debate over what is better a 2 liter engine or a 7 liter engine all about opinion anyway?
saying something is better than something else by nature is an opinion.

really, the only "fact" is that a bigger engine can put down big power numbers without having to work as hard as a smaller engine.

drive ability is an opinion.

even the reliability argument is an opinion. In my opinion, a properly built engine will last just as long no matter the size. In someone else's opinion the smaller engine will wear out faster and break because it has to "work harder"

And since you want to keep it about strictly performance, efficiency, be it hp per liter, or MPG, while they are facts, and would typically be used as ammo in the "which is better" debate, they don't apply here.

We have started to touch on the $ per HP, but that seems to be a pretty null argument because 10 grand at either engine would yield pretty much the same power levels. And when you're shooting for over 1,000 hp, then money applies as much as MPG. Leaving only street driven, daily vehicles where the $ per HP argument really applies.

 

ok, i want to try to get you off the street car stuff...Iam talking race engines. Iam talking HP and TQ that is usable on a race track, and something that will last a lot longer between rebuilds to get my over all cost of racing down. Iam not going to the store in this car nor am i going to CCC to "run down hondas". Iam talking about a fucking race car. A smaller huge turbo'd I4 is going to have to stay in boost to make the same hp as that V8 (read, the engine itself must work harder) and there for will use a lot of fuel and put a lot of stress on that engine. A lot more stress then an NA V8 making the same power. The V8 also has more usable power around the track then a laggy big turbo I4. See there how i made my point with out once using a single opinion.

 

you can't compare a stock from the show room car to a modded car that is just plain stupid. i could invest 60k in a fox mustang and have a 7 sec 2000hp car... or i could invest the same in a fox and make a road course monster with over 700hp.

fact is a small engine is less reliable than a bigger engine even when both are built right when you start pushing hp out of them, it why the pro/rwd cars were spewing out bottom ends all over the place when they got into the 6.50-6.80 range when the v8 cars of the same et range were holding up just fine.

i don't understand how you can not think that a engine spinning 9-10k+ rpms to make 600hp is just as reliable as a properly built engine spinning 6500-7k rpms to make the same power. its spinning higher its working harder its very simple, same thing with boost, the more boost you run the harder you are working your internals.

 

My point in comparing my car to a stock from the show room car is to say...those guys spent 40k dollars on that svt cobra to have a bad ass car on the street...I spent like...what? maybe 20k? and my car is way badder lol. I fear the older fox bodies more than I fear the new svt's and shit...most people can buy a bad ass car or build one...those who choose to take the harder way usually get more bang for their buck...doesnt matter if it's a I4 or a V8. It's not a bag on any engine...as I stated I love all engines in their own respective classes. Do I think I can build up my 4g63 to compete with a top fuel dragster running a 455 big block? hell no...not even brent rau can compete with those things...but saying brent rau's car wasnt worth it...that's just insane...I say mad props to a 6 second 4 banger...hell...mad props to anyone who doesnt settle for manufacturer grade performance...dont care if it's a geo metro or a hennessy venom

 

yeah but that goes with any modded car though, a modded cheap car will always out perform for less money over a stock factory car. only thing is there car has a 3 year xx thousand mile warranty. i'm just saying you can't compare the two, its two totally different deals, fox is a better platform anyway though mine weighs 2680 before i sit in it with a full interior minus rear seats and racing seats in the front. but that is a different topic.

i'm not saying 4 cylinders are bad, i'm just saying if you are going for all out performance the larger displacement engines are the better choice because they are more reliable and easier on parts to go the same times or faster.

 

why cant people just except that this is true and stop talking about compairing bullshit cars that are modded to STOCK cars, its the stupidest cop out ever. Bigger engines will ALWAYS work less to make the same hp as a smaller one. There is no "but my car beats this and i think its better" NO. that doesnt mean shit, it doesnt change physics.