w00t sat GIR my results 4th place- novice class
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I could understand the 64 - 69 thing but I have it on tape that my first run was a 59 then they said on my second run that my previous (first run) was a 64, at the launch. I knew the second # was off on the timer but I didnt know both where. And how does that explain the .1's being different too.
Like I said no big gripe just kinda frustrating as a novice trying to improve when the times where blatently different between what the board and anouncer said (both the same) the first run, and what the announcer said I ran on my first run at the start of the second. It probably was confused / recorded wrong then announced that way. When I get the firewire card I could rip just that section out of the vid and post it. BUT its not a big deal as I went on the wrong side of a gate (no penalties justa dnf so it didnt officially count even), just really frustrating was all.
Like I said a 64/69 mishap would've been ok but a 59.7 / 64.8 really cant be justified by the busted LED in the timer. Im just out for fun, and these things do happen.
Like I said no big gripe just kinda frustrating as a novice trying to improve when the times where blatently different between what the board and anouncer said (both the same) the first run, and what the announcer said I ran on my first run at the start of the second. It probably was confused / recorded wrong then announced that way. When I get the firewire card I could rip just that section out of the vid and post it. BUT its not a big deal as I went on the wrong side of a gate (no penalties justa dnf so it didnt officially count even), just really frustrating was all.
Like I said a 64/69 mishap would've been ok but a 59.7 / 64.8 really cant be justified by the busted LED in the timer. Im just out for fun, and these things do happen.
OUCH!!!
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S14 -- Again, as Shawn mentioned earlier you and another driver in Novice had the same number. Unfortunately, because you were both in the same class, the runs got mixed. Really though, you're in Novice and the point of Novice is to learn how events work and not to be competative. You're learning how run groups work, all the safety stuff involved with course work, etc, etc, etc....
You've made like 4 posts in this thread alone complaining about it... and it was explained after the first what happened. What else do you want?
You've made like 4 posts in this thread alone complaining about it... and it was explained after the first what happened. What else do you want?
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Im sorry I didnt realize that he was talking to me, about my numbers being the same as another novice. But still 1000 numbers and 10 - 15 of the what 70 people were novices.........
Edit: Leonard I just double checked and he was refering to Jay or Boxmod, not I.
Its not about being competive like I said, I am out to have fun and learn my car more. I placed 5th or 6th or 7th, who knows. I checked after my runs where posted and didnt check back to see where I placed later. If I was worried about placing I would of checked back but I didnt. Why do I care where I place? As I'm a novice I get no points towards anything.
I could care less if I was 20 secs off of 2nd to last place, as long as the times where correct. This just so I dont waste my time trying different pressures and suspension settings only to have the official times be off. If the whole point of going to the auto-x as a novice was to learn how things work (which really inst quantum physics, and a person of average intelligence should be able to pick up on how it works in the first event or two), then why even run??? I could save the cash, tires, brakes, strain on components, and just volunteer for work details throughout the day. Im out to learn how my car behaves no matter where I run it, be it the strip or the track. Id have the same gripe if I was OSW and testing out different timing, suspension, and tire pressures only to find out the times were or might be wrong, and my efforts were wasted.
It's also why I had my gf record both my first event runs, this events runs and future ones, so I can get a look at how the car is handling. Ive watched the vids a few times already to see if the tires where rolling over, and if they did at what degree corner does it happen on and with about how much psi, the amount of body roll with noted suspension changes and what the overall effect was on times (changed the front shock stiffness and gained 1-2 sec on the funnies), and if the car was on the verge of understeering or oversteering, and things like that. The time helps differenciate the auto-x from a spirited street run, much in the same way a dyno session does to the good ole' butt dyno.
No hard feelings to the GIR members / staff / volunteers, as these things do happen. If there was any, I wouldn't go back. I enjoyed meeting you guys and running with you as well. I planed on going back since I left and will probably attend not this up and comming event (practices I believe), as VCC is a quarter the distance from me and on the same weekend, but the next after that. See you then
Edit again: Dont take this post as a means to fuel an argument, as it is not meant to be. I do not wish to argue as I have recieved my explanation. I am just trying to verify why I felt the way I did in the first place
Edit: Leonard I just double checked and he was refering to Jay or Boxmod, not I.
Its not about being competive like I said, I am out to have fun and learn my car more. I placed 5th or 6th or 7th, who knows. I checked after my runs where posted and didnt check back to see where I placed later. If I was worried about placing I would of checked back but I didnt. Why do I care where I place? As I'm a novice I get no points towards anything.
I could care less if I was 20 secs off of 2nd to last place, as long as the times where correct. This just so I dont waste my time trying different pressures and suspension settings only to have the official times be off. If the whole point of going to the auto-x as a novice was to learn how things work (which really inst quantum physics, and a person of average intelligence should be able to pick up on how it works in the first event or two), then why even run??? I could save the cash, tires, brakes, strain on components, and just volunteer for work details throughout the day. Im out to learn how my car behaves no matter where I run it, be it the strip or the track. Id have the same gripe if I was OSW and testing out different timing, suspension, and tire pressures only to find out the times were or might be wrong, and my efforts were wasted.
It's also why I had my gf record both my first event runs, this events runs and future ones, so I can get a look at how the car is handling. Ive watched the vids a few times already to see if the tires where rolling over, and if they did at what degree corner does it happen on and with about how much psi, the amount of body roll with noted suspension changes and what the overall effect was on times (changed the front shock stiffness and gained 1-2 sec on the funnies), and if the car was on the verge of understeering or oversteering, and things like that. The time helps differenciate the auto-x from a spirited street run, much in the same way a dyno session does to the good ole' butt dyno.
No hard feelings to the GIR members / staff / volunteers, as these things do happen. If there was any, I wouldn't go back. I enjoyed meeting you guys and running with you as well. I planed on going back since I left and will probably attend not this up and comming event (practices I believe), as VCC is a quarter the distance from me and on the same weekend, but the next after that. See you then
Edit again: Dont take this post as a means to fuel an argument, as it is not meant to be. I do not wish to argue as I have recieved my explanation. I am just trying to verify why I felt the way I did in the first place
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my advice to any novice is just set the car before your first run and keep the tire pressures at "that" setting. As a novice, youre not consistent enough to be able to tune the car with the suspension and look at your times to see the differences.
Most novices will drop 3-10 seconds through their 4 runs. Thats the driver, not the setup of the car. Once you can start putting down your first run within a second of your best, then start worrying about how the car is setup.
Ive only been tuning tire pressures sinve ive started driving. No adjusting strusts, alignment, ride height...nothing except tire pressures. Jason in the H-stock Protege is the same way.
My point... tune the driver, not the car.
Most novices will drop 3-10 seconds through their 4 runs. Thats the driver, not the setup of the car. Once you can start putting down your first run within a second of your best, then start worrying about how the car is setup.
Ive only been tuning tire pressures sinve ive started driving. No adjusting strusts, alignment, ride height...nothing except tire pressures. Jason in the H-stock Protege is the same way.
My point... tune the driver, not the car.
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Jesse I understand that part. You remember what I was telling you the night before, about what I added? Well while it greatly improved real world handling it shifted my car from being neutral to understeer heavy on the course. I ran 6 runs with just tire pressure varying and it helped slightly. When I softened the front at the begining of the fun runs my time was instantly faster than my last good run by a second. I then ran another at the same time and 2 more 1 sec faster than that (theres your 4 runs within 1 sec each all better than my best official times due to the suspension being changed solely). I had to counter the added stiffness, that occured.
Now most will say dont add anything, but it was 13$ for me to fabricate the part and added extra stability, and more responciveness on the street, where I spend 99.9% of my time. All its pluses are still the same with the softer setting even, I just had to balance out the stiffness for track use. The easiest quickest way was adjusting the shocks. The proper way would of been to soften the front sway bar, so that the added nose dive under hard braking wouldnt have occured (like it did by setting the shocks softer), but there wasnt enough time.
Its not like Im a novice car driver / mechanic. Im just a novice as to how far I can push my car, and reading the best lines (as it differs greatly from a road course), on an auto-x course.
There are still some things I need to fix before I can even push my car to the limit, like fixing my steering rack knucle from getting pressed and pinned on the header while taking hard right turns under full trottle (shifting of the mass of the engine to the left, leftward rotation from torque and the fact that the highest part of the knuckle is facing the header at that time causes it to hold it there for a breif second which is not good). Everything in or on this car was researched and installed 100% by me, im just trying to tune it how I want it to handle so that I can put 100% into it. That involves having the car as nutral as possible bordering on oversteer vs understeer which was my current situation. I cant get the feel for how the car handles at the track unless I am at the track
Now most will say dont add anything, but it was 13$ for me to fabricate the part and added extra stability, and more responciveness on the street, where I spend 99.9% of my time. All its pluses are still the same with the softer setting even, I just had to balance out the stiffness for track use. The easiest quickest way was adjusting the shocks. The proper way would of been to soften the front sway bar, so that the added nose dive under hard braking wouldnt have occured (like it did by setting the shocks softer), but there wasnt enough time.
Its not like Im a novice car driver / mechanic. Im just a novice as to how far I can push my car, and reading the best lines (as it differs greatly from a road course), on an auto-x course.
There are still some things I need to fix before I can even push my car to the limit, like fixing my steering rack knucle from getting pressed and pinned on the header while taking hard right turns under full trottle (shifting of the mass of the engine to the left, leftward rotation from torque and the fact that the highest part of the knuckle is facing the header at that time causes it to hold it there for a breif second which is not good). Everything in or on this car was researched and installed 100% by me, im just trying to tune it how I want it to handle so that I can put 100% into it. That involves having the car as nutral as possible bordering on oversteer vs understeer which was my current situation. I cant get the feel for how the car handles at the track unless I am at the track
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It's still driver, not the car.... Story time:
Last year, the 2nd time I raced against Will Conklin, I managed to beat him by 6 tenths. I had 4 good runs and Will is no slouch of a driver. the results can be seen here... http://www.eec.com/racing/Results/2001/0729w.html#STS
You can see there that I managed to be less than a half second off the PAX leader, Elliot Harvey, a 5 time National Champion. Clearly, i drove my ass off that day to be that close. You can ask anyone how well prepped my Protege was, especially back then.
But guess what happened during my first run??? I took a further second off my best time!! Thats with ZERO changes in the car. No changing pressures, no adjusting anything else. Its just YOU. This is why they say this sport is 90% driver and 10% car. Because it is, and its FAR MORE than that when youre just beginning. As we talked about Friday night, autocross is far different than anything you've experienced on the streets, and as much of a badass street driver you are, its of no importance out there on course.
It's the driver, not the car....
if you want to add modifications to the car, go for it. But its going to slow the process of you becoming a better driver.
Last year, the 2nd time I raced against Will Conklin, I managed to beat him by 6 tenths. I had 4 good runs and Will is no slouch of a driver. the results can be seen here... http://www.eec.com/racing/Results/2001/0729w.html#STS
You can see there that I managed to be less than a half second off the PAX leader, Elliot Harvey, a 5 time National Champion. Clearly, i drove my ass off that day to be that close. You can ask anyone how well prepped my Protege was, especially back then.
But guess what happened during my first run??? I took a further second off my best time!! Thats with ZERO changes in the car. No changing pressures, no adjusting anything else. Its just YOU. This is why they say this sport is 90% driver and 10% car. Because it is, and its FAR MORE than that when youre just beginning. As we talked about Friday night, autocross is far different than anything you've experienced on the streets, and as much of a badass street driver you are, its of no importance out there on course.
It's the driver, not the car....
if you want to add modifications to the car, go for it. But its going to slow the process of you becoming a better driver.
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i concur... the added time you had prepping YOURSELF for fun runs, combined with the decrease in pressure to compete will always make your runs better... ALWAYS.
Kai in the blue 300zx dropped over 2 seconds off his TIMED runs, when he did his FIRST fun run. Track conditions were worse when he did his fun runs because the track had collected MORE heat, thus making his STREET TIRES slipperier.
Your modification might have changed the setup of your car to better suit your driving HABITS but did not help your skill.
Drive the car, don't let it drive you.
And remember, leonard (mingrey) is usually full of hot air. The announcer at the event will usually read teh right time, but sometimes doesn't. That is no indicator of what time was actually recorded on the sheets or in the computer. The computer (thus the printout) will have the accurate one most of the time unless timing was stopped for correction right after your runs. The computer accepts times automatically from the JACircuits box, no human intervention required.
As far as the not running in novice once you win thing, that is not for us to decide. That is SCCA rules. It is not fair for someone to keep winning trophies in the introductory class again and again, this is quelled by only allowing one podium finish in Novice. You only get three chances in Novice anyhow, after that you should be moved into your class anyhow. You should have a grasp on understanding (like Jesse said) safety, your limits, and your car's limits. THEN we don't need to hold your hand and make you take an instructor with you when you keep running off course.
this is long winded. i quit.
maybe more later.
Kai in the blue 300zx dropped over 2 seconds off his TIMED runs, when he did his FIRST fun run. Track conditions were worse when he did his fun runs because the track had collected MORE heat, thus making his STREET TIRES slipperier.
Your modification might have changed the setup of your car to better suit your driving HABITS but did not help your skill.
Drive the car, don't let it drive you.
And remember, leonard (mingrey) is usually full of hot air. The announcer at the event will usually read teh right time, but sometimes doesn't. That is no indicator of what time was actually recorded on the sheets or in the computer. The computer (thus the printout) will have the accurate one most of the time unless timing was stopped for correction right after your runs. The computer accepts times automatically from the JACircuits box, no human intervention required.
As far as the not running in novice once you win thing, that is not for us to decide. That is SCCA rules. It is not fair for someone to keep winning trophies in the introductory class again and again, this is quelled by only allowing one podium finish in Novice. You only get three chances in Novice anyhow, after that you should be moved into your class anyhow. You should have a grasp on understanding (like Jesse said) safety, your limits, and your car's limits. THEN we don't need to hold your hand and make you take an instructor with you when you keep running off course.
this is long winded. i quit.
maybe more later.
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(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
-Shawn
(2 posts my a$$, I posted plenty in the autox section 3-4 years ago... GOD, i go on deployment ONE time and you reset my counter? lol)
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I think it's me you guys are talking about having the same number as another car (rsx-s i think), we were both #320. I was in a '92 red 240. Anyway, it was pretty fun and I'm defenatly gonna be there next time.
