Leonard

I think you guys are being awful unfair to the guys who put these events on for us. I myself am very new to the autox scene. Saturday was the 3rd event in which I participated. I love it and have had an absolutely GREAT time every time Ive gone out. I understand where you are coming from regarding the number of runs you have been getting. We ALL want more seat time. I also thing youre being very selfish. Every time Ive gone there has always been requests for help within CFR SCCA to help sponsor and put on events. Ive talked to some of the guys about it and I want to become more involved. There is so much work that goes into sponsoring one of these events. They have to make arrangements with the track police ems insurance companies. Theyve got to make sure that they have certian scca officials present at the event -- things like safety steward chief of timing & scoring chief of tech driving instructors etc etc etc. Without some of them (like safety steward) the liability insurance companies wont cover the event and NOBODY runs. Period.
The bottom line is they need reliable help to put these events on. Saturday Shawn grabbed me and asked that I work registration. This was around 8:30 and they hadnt even had opportunity to lay out the course and I know for a fact that nobody did any runs prior to the first run group. Alot of the guys who are are involved in sponsoring events do so because they enjoy autox and some of them have been running autox for a very long time. What a shame that the most experienced driver do better... some schlep at his first autox should be getting the trophy right?
As far as limiting the number of participants I dont think that is financially feasible. 30 cars at $30 each is $900.00. If you look at http://www.gainesvilleraceway.com/test_track.html youll see that track rental for the day is $1500. Those number dont work and we would soon be without an SCCA to insure the events and wed all be out alot of fun.

I think its time that we all thank Shawn and Frank and all the rest of the people who help put these things on. The do far more than most of us realize and we all benefit from their efforts. Heck maybe some of you guys who want more runs should volunteer to help out more... you might just like the results...

138MustangGT

Id not go as far to say that they were being unfair. I put on the damn event and I think we should have gotten more runs too.
It is unfortunate that the cards didnt play out for this to happen. the problem is being addressed.

As far as us prerunning the course! Thats Malarky!
Saturdays course wasnt created until 745am everyone watched us make it. The first car to drive it was the first car of the first run group.
Sundays course was a tad different. Once we finished making it 3 cars drove on it. Me with 3 passengers so my car would not handle at all and at half speed so we could determing if the turns were turnable. Jesse Naughton with 3 passengers once again at half speed and on his daily driven tires so we could get hte FWD perspective. And John Arruda whose car is SP and modded to high heaven. He rode with me only and was going HELLA FAST into the finish corner his run is WHY we decided to slow the finish. If we had not done this Sundays course would have changed after the first car drove it. That would be unfair.
The course we ran Sunday had NO map to guide us in building I do have the plan on my computer but I had no map to create it from. It was a completely custom course from memory. SO we had to test it. None of the people who tested the course won anything. SO phbbbt! lol

Everyones concern is not getting enough runs for the money. SCCA Members are getting a $5 discount at the next Gville Solo2. Frank has more of a grasp on how well we are covering expenses for the events in Gainesville so we can now offer a discount. Remember the track costs $1500 and insurance costs $700 (about). These costs may be more I am unsure. There is also maintenance on the van the price of registration cards trophies stickers FREE EVENT cards for new memebers gas money for the van the price of batteries for the new radios and numerous other nickel and dime things. This time I think it was said we made possibly $200? So this is what is justifying a reduction in members entry fees. This $200 pays for the radios that Frank bought during the last event. We still barely break even. Now you know the whole inside scoop on the SCCA and events at Gainesville. We cannot cap entry #s because well never break even unless we run 80 cars a day.
Sorry.

PLEASE offer suggestions and solutions when you complain. It gives me something to take with me when I go to bat for you guys!

fastforward

Regarding the pre-running...I dont know about the race you organized. Im not even saying its a common occurance. Maybe what I thought I saw was you just said...club guys testing out the course. True dat.

I never meant to sound like a complainer. Id be the first to give props to those that organize and sanction auto-x events.
I am also one of those people that are willing to pick up cones and help out with duties before or after events.

I see your point about the cap. But some people might be willing to pay a bit more if they know theyll get more track time on occassion. Thus eliminating a need for a large number paying drivers and vehicles. Allowing for more run times. Now this could be just an occasional thing. And like I said before...this is just a suggestion for a possible solution. Just brain storming here no complaining.

Leonard

Now youve got me thinking........ I dont even know if something like this would be possible but I think it could work.

Figure that the hard costs for a day at GIR are $2200.00 (1500 for the track and 700 for insurance). Get like 15 people together to chip in $150 each. (pricey I know but worth it for the seat time in my opinion).

I envision an event something like this. The course should have a minimal number of cones necessary in order to keep speeds at safe levels and such that you can do multiple laps without going through staging each time. Divide it into two running groups. One works one runs. Each individual goes out and runs 10 laps and then goes to the back of the staging line. Cones are only reset between runs (you knock a cone down on lap 1 it stays down for your next 9 laps). We have a cone reset team that drives the course (2 guys in the back of a hatchback and a driver) for cone resets between competitors. Each group does 3 runs and then the groups switch duties.

I dont know if its feasible or not.... and it would be kind of expensive (you could add more people and decrease seat time). But I figure people would get between 20 and 30 minutes of seat time. I think people would definitely have to preregister and prepay for this as it has to be financially feasible for the club.


Comments or Suggestions anyone?

lstepnio

Heck I would easily pay $150.00 to privatly rent the course with 15-25 other cars. I just dont know how big GIR would be rent out the course to a bunch of non sanctioned yahoos like us. I also think isurance is going to more expensive without a sanctioned body. I see this being a saftey concern without a sanctioned body like SCCA making sure we dont get in trouble. I could be wrong they might only see dollars. On the otherhand they do advertise rentals of the course on the website and I think the fees are quite reasonable. If someone wants to look into this Ill gladly pay $100-$200 for a day filled of runs.

fastforward

Now yer thinkin!!! I would pay $150 bucks. Heck if you rent on a weekday it might be cheaper. It would be worth taking the day off too. Or in my case I work weekends and have 2 week days off. Id bet a a lot of TR guys/girls work weekends anyways.

And I love the idea of continueous laps! Nothing is more frustrating then having to do one lap at a time!!! Especially at GIR. You want to keep driving!!!! Hahaha!
Assess a penelty for every cone knocked down. And to self police have racers pay a buck for every knocked over cone! Car with fastest time of day wins the dough! Heeheehee!

Seriously I think it would be cool. what does it take to be a sanctioning body anyways? As far as I know you dont have to be SCCA or something to rent the track. Afterall the track can be rented to private teams. You probably have to sign all kinds of waivers and stuff for insurance reasons. Its not like you can wreck anything there either. No walls no barrriers nothing. You go off the track and you dig up some grass thats about it.

If you were able to get something like this going the biggest roadblock might be no timing gear. And that would suck without it.

Leonard

I think it would be far easier to run it with SCCA sanctioning as a special training event if they were willing. They already have means to get insurance. GIR is going to require that those running the event have liability insurance. Mainly because if somebody gets REALLY out of whack and goes careening into anything (staging line? course workers spectators somebody flips catches on fire and burns the track) somebody has to handle all of that. Granted this is all pretty unlikely but.... well all we can do is thank the overpopulation of lawyers in our country for that.... Anyhow

There are insurance companies out there that will that will do this kind of thing but its not really feasible for us from what Ive read (read here: http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1514 )

So needless to say I think this would be easiest to run with SCCA support. Maybe charge nominaly more than the event would cost to run and let the proceeds go to CFRSCCA for equipment. We need to find out what kind of interest there is in this sort of event. My biggest fear is that more people will be interested than we can have in a single event to keep track time up near 30 minutes per person. I kind of like the concept of this though. Its like a hybrid between autox and open track. I would love to open track my car but Im afraid that it would get damaged... I just dont feel comfortable going down to sebring and out on the track with twenty other people.

There are going to be some issues we have to work out with the multiple lap thing... two really big one. Those people on street tires are very likely going to see their tires get VERY host and fade.... Also most people are going to see MASSIVE brake fade. Ill be ~okay in the Cobra (OEM 13 inch dual piston brembos are nice although my pads will probably be insufficient and I may boil my brake fluid as well as anyone else) but 10 laps at a time may well be two much for the masses without cooldown time for tires and brakes.

Shawn!!! Do you have any thoughts????

fastforward

I dont think you have anything to worry about concerning tire temp and brake fade. The track is not as big as Sebring or anything. Total course length is 1.6 miles I believe. But that is all the roads combined.
Id estimate a total lap time of just over a minute for most cars and top speeds would most likely not exceed 65-70mph. In fact you want to design a course that doesnt allow for too high a speed. Thats when people end up doing something stupid.
So applying the brakes at those speeds wouldnt be much an issue for any cars even stock.

Id be curious to see what insurance coverage would cost for a single event if we needed it. Also the idea about raising the cost per driver to allow for money to go torwards the Central Florida Region SCCA club in exchange for use of their track gear is a great idea!

138MustangGT

OK FYI the track supports an open lap time of 1:15.00 if you are taking it easy Trust me.

SCCA has events like this theyre called Solo 1 AND ARENT THAT EXPENSIVE!!! But they do not give you 30 minutes of track time.

I dont know anything about Solo 1 but will learn in April. Dont expect to have anything get done by this summer but we might be able to do a cool event like that this year sometime.
EVERYONE wasnts to open track but that happens to be reserved for cars that have cool things like roll bars and fire systems(or at least an extinguisher). Its not for our gimpy solo2 cars Solo 1 trials are our introduction venue before we get interested in things like club racing. JOIN THE SCCA get acquainted with the type of racing offered and lobby your local SCCA board for the type of event you want to run in. It happens that way.

As far as costs are concerned we are giving Gville Raceway a hassle about event costs just because of the input you guys (and a few others) have given. You tell me stuff I pass it up the chain and it hits Gville raceway slam in the mouth. Hopefully theyll be reeling from the possibility of less events and lowere the price!

Oh and I know you werent complaining or getting pissed about the predriving... Im sure you noticed that no one even launched. It is perfectly expected to ask questions when you think something unfair is going on.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! keep them coming.

Leonard

Yeah I know a little about solo I. Im more interested in this for personal enjoyment than I am for competition. That and so I can do my wild stuff in a safe environment and drive like a sane member of soceity on the streets . I just want the seat time. I enjoy it I go home with a HUGE grin on my face. Its great! Did I say I want more seat time?

Shawn you better watch out next time... youre tires are no longer the equalizer... Ive got a set of 17x8s off a 96 cobra in the garage and am ordering kumhos to go with em on monday.