Insurance / Body Shops / Consumers

[killerMikeD]

I would fix that quater panel for about 14 hours, plus 2 hours set up and pull time, other than that replace it, i cant see really any good pics of the door damage, but if it was folded and bent in, it would more than likely need a door skin, then additional repair time on the shell, once the skin is off would be easier to fix the shell, with decent repair time.

[Alan]

I Noticed you edited your post, but i will still reply to it anyway. I do know and believe that there are people that work for the insurance companys that have had experience in bodyshops, worked there, owned them Etc. Every adjuster that comes out "supposedly" worked for a body shop, or was a bodyman for 20 years, yet they cannot write a decent estimate, and will try to deny any suppliments.

But it is still a fact that INSURANCE COMPANYS sell insurance, they DO NOT REPAIR CARS, their purpose is to Pay for the LOSS in moneys that their claimant/insured has had, and the owner of the car should choose the shop they want it repaired at, and the body shop works for the CUSTOMER. And to tell you the truth, not sure why you write estimates to begin with, do you want to Rent a stall and repair it yourself? LOL

Also, you have not replyed to any of my topics, about the things that these insurance companys do, other than to say it simply does not happen, which im sad to say is FALSE, it does happen everyday, and i am glad if it Dosent happen at your companys, but in the majority it DOES. And i still don't get how i am Biased, i would be biased if i said A "certain" insurance company did this, but i am not, i see it with almost every insurance company, in some form or another, and to different degrees, i am the farthest thing from biased. Now you 2 have had multiple opportunites to explain to me how you see it, and how insurance "really" works, but neither of you have taken me up on that, you say i am wrong, but yet i have presented my facts, and all you do is deny and call me biased, but yet you have nothing to say about it, why? well i can assume that you dont have anything to add because you infact know that i am correct, but dont want to admit it?

Another fact i would like to bring up is that these Estimating programs, ADP, mitchell, and CCC (pathways) etc. Are simply a GUIDE, and should be used as such, it even says so in the program. These programs are not a bible, and times should be payed for items that are not in the program, because these procedures still need to be done even if you cannot CLICK on them , oh and theres this section called the P pages, really helps out alot when writing a proper estimate, cause its not all Included. - Mike

I see you also edited your post. You must be hiding something.

I work in claims. I don't sell policies. My sole purpose is to indemnify those involved in the loss. This is the same with 100% of insurance claims departments. Sales have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CLAIMS. They are two completely different animals and serve two completely different purposes. The adjuster/appraiser who goes out there to write a supplement isn't there to talk you into higher limits or sell you tow coverage...he is there to inspect the vehicle/repairs and work with the shop to repair the vehicle. Period.

This is a losing argument that could literally go on for close to eternity. It is obvious no one will see eye to eye, so what is the point of continuing the drama? This is the last time I'll be involved in any insurance debate on TR.

[Alan]

Check this car out. The insurance company wanted to fix the 1/4 and the door instead of replacing them. The door skin was folded back onto the frame and the door frame had buckled. The adjuster expected us to "pull it out" in his words. rrrrrrrrrriiiggghhhhttt!

EDIT: Forgot to mention the estimate was written for like $650 and the guy had a $500 deductible so the insurance company was only gonna pay $150 on this job.

I lied. THIS is my last insurance debate post.

The appraiser will write to pull it. If the shop can't repair the existing panel a supplement will be written to replace.

The same exact thing happened to the damages on my old Scion. When I walked into Gene Perez for an estimate they originally wrote to cut the quarter and weld in a replacement. When State Farm called me and setup a drive-in inspection at Gene Perez the EXACT SAME appraiser inspected my car again, but this time he wrote to pull the panel. Repairing the existing panel is much cheaper than cutting out the old and replacing it with a new panel. This isn't an uncommon practice if the panel doesn't look like an obvious candidate for a replacement panel.

[Hellfire_Studios]

Mike....if you had the decision to enter into this field again...knowing what you know now....would you still do it?

Josh

[killerMikeD]

I see you also edited your post. You must be hiding something.

I work in claims. I don't sell policies. My sole purpose is to indemnify those involved in the loss. This is the same with 100% of insurance claims departments. Sales have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CLAIMS. They are two completely different animals and serve two completely different purposes. The adjuster/appraiser who goes out there to write a supplement isn't there to talk you into higher limits or sell you tow coverage...he is there to inspect the vehicle/repairs and work with the shop to repair the vehicle. Period.

This is a losing argument that could literally go on for close to eternity. It is obvious no one will see eye to eye, so what is the point of continuing the drama? This is the last time I'll be involved in any insurance debate on TR.

No, i have nothing to hide i believe i have told more facts and the truth about what goes on in this indusrty in this thread more than anyone else.

I am also aware that Claims and sales are not related, but when does anyone really "review" their policy, when they get in an accident.

Now there has been no debate, and really not arguement, because i am the only one willing to talk about these issues, no one else will address them, i mean i was told i know nothing about insurance, and that i was fabricating all of these issues, while i was actually hoping that someone on the insurance side could shed some light on their views and how things work, but that hasn't happened either.....

On another note, today i had to deal with an adjuster from SF personally, usually the office takes care of that and our supervisor tech, but no one was there, and it was a good experience, we were able to work things out and agree on proper times, wish it could happen everytime.

[killerMikeD]

I lied. THIS is my last insurance debate post.

The appraiser will write to pull it. If the shop can't repair the existing panel a supplement will be written to replace.

The same exact thing happened to the damages on my old Scion. When I walked into Gene Perez for an estimate they originally wrote to cut the quarter and weld in a replacement. When State Farm called me and setup a drive-in inspection at Gene Perez the EXACT SAME appraiser inspected my car again, but this time he wrote to pull the panel. Repairing the existing panel is much cheaper than cutting out the old and replacing it with a new panel. This isn't an uncommon practice if the panel doesn't look like an obvious candidate for a replacement panel.

well thats true unless its progressive you are dealing with, your fixing that darn panel or else!

[killerMikeD]

Mike....if you had the decision to enter into this field again...knowing what you know now....would you still do it?

Josh

I honestly don't know, I really like what i do, and i can repair cars that would be inconcieveable to be repaired to the average eye. But the way this industry is, is what makes it unbearable, the pay system, and pressure from owners, managers, insurance and customers. Something is going to have to change because shit is about to hit rock bottom, the pay/wages and how every responcibility, warranty and freebie's are passed onto the tech. Maybe if I can find a decent salary with a contract and let the shop worry if their getting paid or not. And this i think is what causes alot of problems with insurance companys, because we get paid on the labor hours and if the time isn't there then we loose directly, sure the shop dosen't make the money either, but we the TECHS are the ones that have to do the work/procedure for free with no compensation, and you are not gonna get quality work like that.

[importguy1208]

Here is the car after we straightened the door and the quarter. Car looks pretty good but to the trained eye it will always look a little off. There was just too much bent metal there for it to be perfect. I mean from two feet it looks good but if you get on the side and look at all the body lines something just doesn't seem right.

Oh well, I guess a quarter panel pushed in six inches doesn't justify replacing it. The door jamb also was pulled out the quarter was so far out of place. The door was hammered and dollied from the inside and then skimmed. We didn't like it but that's the way life is.

[surealconcepts]

thats how my 1/4 is too... lol i just didnt wanna change the quarter right now... so how is everyones elses shop doin?! bc my shop is SLOW AS SHIT!!!

[Sabotage]

i wouldve wrote to replace that qt, its close enough to 2/3 to me, especially after pull and sand ect! but if its close to totaling and you're trying to save it from a total loss, like if the owner request, and the shop is confident they can pull it and it'll look good, then write to pull it. that way you dont have to remove/install the rear and side glass either. but what do i know!
this is how we do it in georgia anyways

[Hellfire_Studios]

thats how my 1/4 is too... lol i just didnt wanna change the quarter right now... so how is everyones elses shop doin?! bc my shop is SLOW AS SHIT!!!

got more work than I can handle.....was slow last month but its crazy now...

Mike hang in there....

Josh

[killerMikeD]

got more work than I can handle.....was slow last month but its crazy now...

Mike hang in there....

Josh

just give me the noose!

i wouldve wrote to replace that qt, its close enough to 2/3 to me, especially after pull and sand ect! but if its close to totaling and you're trying to save it from a total loss, like if the owner request, and the shop is confident they can pull it and it'll look good, then write to pull it. that way you dont have to remove/install the rear and side glass either. but what do i know!
this is how we do it in georgia anyways

what do you mean by 2/3? Guaging from the pics the quater panel looked repairable if enough repair time was written(and if you know and Use the FAIRMONT method you could straighten that qtr very well) this i believe would be the best repair since it would be less technician intrusion, and you wouldnt be breaking factory seams which would enable better corrosion protection, than cutting the whole 1/4 off. BUt what do i know

[killerMikeD]

And i still have no explanation or facts or any other sides of my issues responded to? lol

[Sabotage]

what do you mean by 2/3? Guaging from the pics the quater panel looked repairable if enough repair time was written(and if you know and Use the FAIRMONT method you could straighten that qtr very well) this i believe would be the best repair since it would be less technician intrusion, and you wouldnt be breaking factory seams which would enable better corrosion protection, than cutting the whole 1/4 off. BUt what do i know

here we have a 2/3rds rule, if making a repair vs replace decision and the panel is 2/3 or more damaged, then we write to replace. also, there is a threshold for repair hrs, if it reaches that threshold then we replace. the threshold is looked up on each panel vehicle specific. these are some of the many guidelines i'm allowed to write w/in. i may not agree completely with them all but its not my money i'm writting the checks for!

[importguy1208]

Can you PM me with the details of this "Fairmont Method?"

EDIT: By the way, we're busier than we can handle right now. Have two cars at another shop that we had on their frame machines that have been done for a week and we still aren't ready for them. Good thing there not in a rush for them.