Need advice - Built VG30 VS LS1 Swap

[Empire]

So the time has come to start planning my 300zx build.

We are going to tear it down to the bare chassis and resurrect it from there.
So that opens the door for a lot of options.

The end goals for the car are:
Enjoyable to drive, daily driver.
at least 300 whp.
Decent gas mileage

Looking through some of the options, I've basically narrowed it down to either building the stock engine, keeping it N/A and running with that, OR doing an LS1 swap.
Both have their pros and cons.
So far, it appears that to get to that power level, it is going to cost about the same.
Building the stock engine keeps things more simple as far as making things work.
Doing the swap however, does offer things like, much greater potential down the road, and does have the "cool" aspect to it.

Any advice?
Any bits of info?

I'm in the process of figuring out just how similar the price tags would be to either building the VG or doing the swap. If the VG can make that kind of power, and get decent mileage for just a few grand, and the swap is going to cost 7, 8, 9+ grand, then the answer is easy, we'll just build the VG.

Since either option is going to have a ton of work involved, that part isn't really a factor (assuming the LS can be done without major body modification and/or can be make to work with gauges and all of that) If the Swap is going to be a MAJOR pain to get done, then it'll just wait til another project.
But, from what I've gathered, it isn't much more difficult to get done as compared to doing the swap into an S-Chassis and if that truly is the case, then it is a wash as far as I'm concerned.

The only other major factor is drive ability.
I would have to assume that the LS engine could put down 300 whp without trying too hard. The VG on the other hand, I have concerns that it is going to be less pleasant to drive at that power range.
And Gas Mileage. Being a daily driver, MPG is a major concern. I'm thinking that to make that kind of power, the VG might just have to guzzle down gas. Any thoughts on either engine in that regard?

Again, I'll take any input, advice, 2 cents, 10 cents, tips, information, resources, point in the right directions, cheat codes, hints, tricks, bonus items, etc that I can get.

Greatly appreciate it

[markstheman365]

Id say LS. Your already commited to spending money and time, might as well make the car unique. Well.....more unique then stock engine. Plus that v8 roar seems like it would suit the ears more then that v6 would.

[Empire]

that is a pro to the Ls swap, the unique, cool factor. But, for me personally, unique and cool isn't really a big selling point.
That's why I'm not diving face first into the swap.

and I don't know that I would have either engine set up "roar"
there is just something about drawing added attention from the cops that is a major turn off to me.
That, and I actually enjoy being able to hear my radio.
But, the appease the young, street racing punk inside me, I will probably do electric cut outs for when I want to roar down the road.

[markstheman365]

No i feel you. Especially on the exhaust note. I like a subtle sound. Kinda like a stock mustang gt. You can hear the beastly roar, just suppressed. Stock exhuast with cutouts have always been badass to me. I never even looked into a NA VG. Ill youtube a few later.

[Empire]

that's because the VG was made for boost and to get any real power out of it you have to boost it. 300 whp is nothing with turbos. BUT, it is a lot of work to swap the NA engine for the TT engine along with everything else that is needed. The block/head/manifold are all essentially the same. The major difference is the TT block has oil squirts that hit the underside of the piston to keep the piston temps under control better.
by the time I did all of that work, not only would it have cost a few grand, but I'd still have to build it up some to make that much power and at that point, I might as well have swapped the LS1 in it and called it a day.

My other Z project will get a beefy boosted VG under the hood, (Unless I fall in love with the LS before then) but that car is going to be converted RHD, most of the chassis will be tube, it is basically going to be a street legal race car. But that's a totally different project.
This is the "lets make an awesome, easy yet still fun to drive daily driver"

[markstheman365]

^nice. I wanna do a v8 vert this summer. I was thinking blown 5.0, my freind has a shortblock with new pistons. Sounds like it could be cool.

[Blackzenki82]

Bone stock LS1 dyno sheet...



Bone stock Z32TT dyno sheet...




Study both hard, as what you want to do seems pretty much financially, and as labor intensive as either of your options. There will be proponents of the LSx, like tommy, jdm tyte drift kids, and then there'll be the proven VG30's, and the guys with know how there (ash powers).

Me personally, I think I'd go with the el es juan. Not for any particular reason other than "I hear" that VG30DETT's are a bitch to work on in the bay, no first hand exp of any magnitude. So, yeah, the LSx, makes power when you so as much as fart on it, pwr/tq on demand with that skinny pedal on the right, "lightweight" V8 engine with excellent aftermarket. I think it'd be fun to drive with a couple high flow resonators, and Borla mufflers, quiet enough for a conversation with the windows up and the AC on, but a perfect tone while daily driving, but stand on that skinny pedal, cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.

elec cutout with a throttle position switch at around 70% would be nice too.

My Stoned $0.02.

[Empire]

^ exactly why I'm in the position I am in.
Build a NA VG30
Do the TT swap
Swap in an LS engine.

considering the rather conservative power goals, each option will make the power for about the same budget.
That's why it is really down to:
- verify the final costs really are about the same - i'm sure i'm overlooking bits and pieces in each option, and we all know how bits and pieces can add up.
- overall drive-abilty - I don't want to deal with a peaky power curve or having to rev the snot out of it to make it move its ass or anything like that.
- Gas Mileage - What engine is going to offer me the power, the cost, and the drive-ability I want, and give me the best MPG.

[Empire]

The MPG seems to be about the same... but the VG is supposed to run premium... and the LS (at least the 2001 camaro SS) only needs regular.

comparing the 300zx to a camaro ss, they both weight right at 3,000 pounds (give or take a bit depending on who you ask) the general consensus is, that a 300whp 300ZX should get right around 20 mpg, mixed, casual driving. And the same thing with the Camaro, however, people with the 6 speed tranny talk about getting mid to high 20's when it is mostly interstate.

The Kicker is, it looks like when you up the power on the VGTT, you pretty much kick MPG in the nuts. The guys running around in the 400-450 range, appear to get between 15-18. BUT, the camaro guys in that same power range still claim to get 18-20 and into the mid 20's on the interstate. That 6th gear seems to be the trick. They say that do 80 mph at 1,800 rpms.

As far as power goes... It is looking like the LS option is going to be more fun to drive. Making boat loads of torque at low RPMs.
Both engines have their potential.

the NA VG option is going to cost as much, but is going to get bad MPG and have a pretty peaky power curve. Going to have to rev the snot out of it to get it to move its ass.

So now it is basically down the the dollars and cents of it.
Both options are viable options. Both suit the requirements. The LS seems to be a slightly better fit.
so which one is going to cost less. Doing a TT swap, or LSx swap?

[Z28ricer]

VG30 pros:

The engine mounts dont need to be modified/custom
The a/c lines dont need to be modified/custom
The heater lines dont need to be modified/custom
The wiring doesnt need to be modified/custom
The exhaust doesnt need to be modified/custom
The driveshaft doesnt need to be modified/custom

LS1 cons

See the opposite of each of those

LS1 pro's, the fuel mileage, driveability, capability, and ease of working on the vehicle after, is pretty much the opposite of the VG

VG cons, see above.


Oh and the LS1 isnt a "slightly" better fit than a VG, its a "slightly" better fit than an SR, a VG in the Z32's engine bay was some sort of mean joke, or someone high up lost a bet.

[BABILLARACING]

ls , this might be my next project

[Empire]

ok.
so after some further research, I discovered by this isn't as common of a swap as it is in 240sx's.
To get the engine and drivetrain into the engine bay, you have to chop and hack the firewall and tranny tube up to make more space. Not that big of a deal considering it A) gets the engine in, B) solves/fixes weight distribution problems and C) really isn't all that hard to measure, cut, and weld a new firewall together.
The part that sucks about that is, Nissan shoved so much crap under the dash that you pretty much have to give up the climate control stuff. I'm sure you can make some sort of basic custom a/c using a basic 240 set up, but you won't be able to use the automatic climate control that came with the car. And even more so, if you do get the stock dash mounted, you won't be able to use the stock center console since your new tranny tube now takes up all of that space.

The few people that have managed to get it done without cutting the firewall have had to at the very least, bang out the tranny tube to make space for the larger t-56 tranny.
I did find someone that was talking about making an adapter to be able to use the stock tranny, but i wasn't able to find any info where they actually made that work.

Beyond that, the only other option I've found is to lower the cross member 1-2 inches, and chop and hack the oil pan to be able to get the thing to fit, but even at that, you still end up with tranny fitment issues.


So unless someone knows something that I don't know, getting an LS engine into a 300zx is the part that turns it from a "simple" engine swap into a full blown project.

[Z28ricer]

Theres nothing about any of the good swaps thats "just a simple swap" if you want it to turn out right.

[Z28ricer]

Making the Z32 trans work shouldnt be an issue at all, there really isnt a whole lot to adapting different engines/transmissions together, if it really does have that little transmission tunnel space, then adapt the Z32 trans and be done with it, on the bright side you'll probably spend less on that than on a T56, though I highly doubt the console area issues you're saying, the T56 and Z32/RB25 transmissions are very similar in size in that area, its at the opening on the firewall that there is a huge difference, for the bellhousing, of course the large bellhousing on the T56 isnt exactly for the transmission, its to fit the large clutch, which is highly beneficial.

[Z28ricer]

You can also use the readily available bellhousing for the Toyota R154, its a good bit smaller than the T56 in the tunnel area, the bellhousing I havent seen in person to compare to a stock T56 bellhousing, but it does appear to be a little smaller, especialy where the tunnel tapers off.