eBay Intercooler Test

[Alpha]

I posted this in another forum. Someone suggested I post it in other forums as well. Testing was done a couple months ago so some of you may have seen it already

All testing was done by Buschur Racing Take the test for what it's worth. A lot of work goes into this type of test. Hope to see Lancerman (Jerry) do some testing in the next couple months

Originally Posted by davidbuschur

Here you go, we finally did it. I hope everyone is happy now. I know I am.

My car is on the dyno making huge power, 640 whp with the new HTA35R on it. We have our Race FMIC on it which I say is the best FMIC you can buy with your hard earned money. The tempurature today is 62 degrees F in our dyno room.

I made a bunch of pulls this morning and the car was making within 1-3 hp on the last few of 640/511 torque.

When I got done I decided to leave the car on the dyno and put on the Ebay intercooler that is a copy in appearance to the AMS FMIC.

My car is running C16. I am using NO air temp correction for fueling other than when the air is BELOW 50 degrees F. So if the air temp goes UP the fuel stays the same. I am using no timing compensation for anything either. What I am telling you all is the map is the map, it is running what I told it to and not making adjustments.

The last pull I made with our Race FMIC was 643 whp and 511 ft lbs of torque. I MADE NO CHANGES. I left the dyno, had Ted bolt on the new intercooler and came back when he was done.

Here is the important data:

Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 69.80 degrees.
Increase in air temp 7.2 degrees.
Peak boost was 40.3 psi.

We then bolted on the Ebay special that is an AMS attempted copy. Absolutely NO changes were made to anything other than bolting on the I/C.

Car made 633 whp and 505 ft lbs of torque. So not a bad loss at this HP level.

Here is the BAD part.

Air temp after the intercooler at the start of the pull, 62.60 degrees.
Air temp after the intercooler at the end of the pull, 122 degrees!! That is an increase in air temp of 59.4 degrees in a single gear pull!
Peak boost went up which I find strange as it hit 42.1.

The knock count went up considerably with these higher air temps. To run the car safely I would need to pull atleast a few degrees of timing.

**So in summary the intercooler with 2 more psi boost made 10 less whp than our Race FMIC at that is at big HP levels. The problem is the intercooler is NOT EFFICIENT AT REMOVING HEAT. Which is what it is there for. I am betting the stock FMIC is not much worse than this. An increase of 59.4 degrees is absolutely HUGE in a single gear pull. On a summer day or road race/autocross situation this intercooler would absolutely SUCK.

Bottom line is, you get what you pay for and buying one of these I do not think is a good investment of your money.

Originally Posted by davidbuschur

2nd test didn't come out to good.

I had also bought a new LARGE FMIC to test awhile back. This is the really big one with the 3" inlet/outlet.

First off it does not fit with our FMIC plumbing and it has not mounts. It's just a big Ebay intercooler.

We had some 3" to 2.5" couplings and attempted our best to put it on the car. It was fine at 25 psi but would not stay on at 40 psi. Looks like it is a turd anyway so here is what I could get for data:

Air tempurature after the intercooler at start of test, 64.40 degrees
Air tempurature at end of test (test ended at ONLY 6200 rpm as the pipe blew off 2 times) 82.40 degrees.

Peak boost pressure was 41.58 psi.

The test of our Race FMIC were run from 3,000 rpm to 8,000 rpm. Temps were taken at the start and end of the pulls for all these tests.

So even this very large FMIC increased air temps 18 degrees and it wasn't even close to being a full pull. For comparison the smaller ebay intercooler from start to 6200 rpm had increased to 86 degrees.

This concludes our Ebay intercooler testing. I have both of these for sale or you can buy a real intercooler and call us to order the Race FMIC.

Originally Posted by davidbuschur

Our Time Attack car last season was fitted with our 20g-9-5, of course since it is small it is not the most efficient turbo and makes quite a lot of heat when pushed.

I have our datalogs from Summit Point Time Attack pulled on my laptop from last year.

We were out for a session which took 6 minutes and 30 seconds. This is a warm up, 3 full runs and cool down lap.

The car had out Race FMIC on it. Boost levels were a peak of 27.3 psi. No alky injection, no water sprayers. Just turbo and our FMIC.

The very beginning of the log shows AIT's of 104 degrees F. (so it was pretty warm outside combined with engine bay heat and such I suppose) The air temps at part throttle boost around the track, through corners and such would go up to around 107 degrees F. Robert had a few decent long straights. The car would accelerate up to 118 mph on one where the AIT's reached 111.2 F. Then he would slow down for a corner and they would remain close to 111 F. The next long straight he would start the long pull with AIT of 109 f and at the end of the straight he was doing 124 MPH with AIT's of 116.2 degrees.

This was the very first lap, a warm up lap.

Now, looking at the 3rd all out lap the air temps are holding a steady 120 degrees. On the first straight the car hits 122 mph, so you can see he is pushing harder. The AIT's at the end of this is 123 degrees. The longest straight shows vehicle speed at 130.6 mph and intake air temps up to 125.6 degrees.

The part of this that you should find impressive is that road racing is going to build a lot of heat and keep the intercooler hot. Here is an example of a car with a fairly small turbo running 27 psi of boost on a very warm day. Started a Time Attack session with AIT's of 104 degrees and after beating the car for 6 minutes and 30 seconds the AIT's only saw a high peak of 125.6 degrees.

That is some damn good heat control right there. A rise of 21 degrees.

The two Ebay intercoolers we JUST tested on a 60 degree day with starting temps of 60 degrees gained almost 60 degrees of intake air temp IN A SINGLE GEAR RUN.

I hope this will finally show there is a difference.

The power on my particular car even with the Ebay stuff on it is decent. BUT, if you tried to run this intercooler on ANY OTHER vehicle with air temp correction the results would be a lot less favorable in the HP department. The factory ECU would kill the car with fuel and timing adjustments as would any other car that had corrections for air temp turned on.

I chose to test the intercooler without these corrections to let it just do what it could and show the real truth behind the products.

Truth is, had the intercooler done really well, I would not have posted any of this information. Luckily for me it performed poorly in the cooling department.

Thank you and have a great day.

[JR.]

good info dude.. rep given.

[awdsal]

very interesting

[GsT Racer]

good read. good info for the ebay whores....like myself

[kitt]

I'm not going to re-read it all right now, but as I recall he was testing intercoolers on the Dyno at his shop. While this may be conveniant for logging purposes you're not fully testing an intercooler while its sitting stationary on a dyno.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by kitt

I'm not going to re-read it all right now, but as I recall he was testing intercoolers on the Dyno at his shop. While this may be conveniant for logging purposes you're not fully testing an intercooler while its sitting stationary on a dyno.

I dont know about you but I am not about testing on the streets at 500+whp The test was fine. I spoke with Dave and he did everything he could to keep everything constant. Started each pull at the same air temp, coolant temp, etc. I would be willing to bet all the money in my pocket that the eBay intercooler(s) would have done just as bad on the streets

[Ender.]

Originally Posted by Alpha

I dont know about you but I am not about testing on the streets at 500+whp The test was fine. I spoke with Dave and he did everything he could to keep everything constant. Started each pull at the same air temp, coolant temp, etc. I would be willing to bet all the money in my pocket that the eBay intercooler(s) would have done just as bad on the streets

Correct. For the parameters given everything was kept constant while the only variable the was changed was the intercooler. It is definetely good information and goes to show that you get what you pay for.

[kitt]

I completely agree it's good information and I'm sure it is accurate regarding pressure drop, initial temps etc....

I suppose in the context of one 1/4 mile race it was probably pretty close to 100% accurate.

I just don't think that you can totally ignore the aspect of how efficiently an intercooler removes heat over time, how well air flows over it etc..

I also agree that the Buschur Race Intercooler will continue to outperform the eBay intercooler regardless of street vs. dyno testing. I just don't think its a complete picture and that street testing may reveal interesting information especially regarding two more well matched coolers.

[boosteddsm]

Then get a intercooler sprayer... Your still under the buschur front mount price..

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by boosteddsm

Then get a intercooler sprayer... Your still under the buschur front mount price..

An intercooler sprayed is a band-aid. It's also another part that can possibly fail. I have no idea what Buschur's Race intercooler sells for. I have always used Garrett intercooler cores with Precision end tanks. For the price they can't be beat imo

[boosteddsm]

Originally Posted by Alpha

An intercooler sprayed is a band-aid. It's also another part that can possibly fail. I have no idea what Buschur's Race intercooler sells for. I have always used Garrett intercooler cores with Precision end tanks. For the price they can't be beat imo

I know what your saying.. Just stating cheap fixes for cheap parts..

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by boosteddsm

I know what your saying.. Just stating cheap fixes for cheap parts..

"cheap fixes for cheap parts"

That actually made me laugh

[GsT Racer]

Originally Posted by Alpha

An intercooler sprayed is a band-aid. It's also another part that can possibly fail. I have no idea what Buschur's Race intercooler sells for. I have always used Garrett intercooler cores with Precision end tanks. For the price they can't be beat imo

https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...14d1a7a9c7024c

i think that might be it. ive been looking at that intercooler for a few weeks now and thinking about getting it, but its damn expensive for my budget

[BOX SENTRA]

can you just buy the core? if i upgrade the intercooler i might have to get this one.

[Got boost??]

good info