Ethanol Free Gas?

[Charles]

Just curious, does anyone use these stations in the bay area?

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

[treekiller]

Charles,


AFAIK all stations are E-10 as of 1-1 2010 it was passed into state law as an average. and most of it is pre mixed at the port.

[RoadRacer]

Yes, I use Bollinger's Sunoco on Tyrone Blvd in St Pete. FYI the price of 93 was $3.35 last time I was in there. (727) 345-6941

[Charles]

Charles,


AFAIK all stations are E-10 as of 1-1 2010 it was passed into state law as an average. and most of it is pre mixed at the port.

I was aware of this Jeff, but somehow these handful of stations are still selling real gas. I'm only through about 1/3rd of my first tank running it and it looks like roughly a 10%+ MPG improvement.

I'll be doing some towing this weekend to finish off the tank and I suspect I'll see even more gains there. I'll get the final number late this weekend I'm sure.

[RoadRacer]

I asked Bollinger's when they would HAVE to switch to gas with Ethanol and she said she didn't know.

[Empire]

I was aware of this Jeff, but somehow these handful of stations are still selling real gas. I'm only through about 1/3rd of my first tank running it and it looks like roughly a 10%+ MPG improvement.

I'll be doing some towing this weekend to finish off the tank and I suspect I'll see even more gains there. I'll get the final number late this weekend I'm sure.

I maintained a 10-15% increase in my 240sx using "real" gas over 4 gas tanks.
It was even more so in my 300zx, between 15-20%
Both cars had a notable difference in throttle response.
Both cars were basically stock.

[treekiller]

I hate to tell you this but it's nearly impossible to see a real world. 10% increase between E10 and E-0 (given no other variables coming into play) 2-3% at the most. in a controlled environment. our cooler weather most likley changed your mileage more then the perceived lack of ethanol.

I say Perceived since no store, and I know Sunnoco does not. control what they get from the trucks.. that's decided at the blend point. It's funny I hear that 10% number thrown around.. to loose 10% mileage the ethanol added would have to have Negative BTU content. since 10% is the MAXIMUM blend point. It's just not true..

What I find funny is many are experiencing these perceived gains wile still running blended fuel. since it's not against the law to advertise "REAL GAS" see if they advertise 100% ethanol free gasoline.. (100% ethanol free fuel could be their diesel) something tells me they don't since that would be a lie.

I had self blended (prior to the law change) in a semi scientific way with about 2000 logged miles in the same vehicle (multiple samples 1 mile cruse locked on 60mph, fuel usage calculated from Injector duty cycle) and have seen almost a linear decrease in fuel mileage in blends >15% but less then 50% >50% the car I was using (with stock injectors) was unable to compensate so there was an exponential fuel economy loss. but less then 15% I could not perceive or calculate within any margin of error a difference. Hills and altitude had much greater variable then the fuel blend.

but before I ran out of injector duty cycle the plots are oddly consistent ~2.7% change for every 10% from 20% to 50% ethanol.. but below 20% the data was not consistent enough to come up with a hard scientific conclusion, one blend I'd get an average of 26.7mpg the next supposedly identical blend I'd get 31.4 MPG.. that's like 14% of the higher number, It goes into the data bucket, but there needs to be hundreds of data points for each blend before any acceptable statistical consistency can be reached.

I don't want to be a doubting Thomas.. But all that is holy in Enginerd Land there has to be additional variables playing a part. Even if that Variable is "wet ethanol" ethanol has absorbed an adequate amount of water to cause an issue. this only really happens in really low volume stations. and even then once phase separation begins the ethanol rich 110 octane mix sinks and the pure gasoline floats to the top.. but that gasoline is now 84 octane since that's what they mix with pure ethanol to make 87 pump fuel. is it possible you got junk fuel.. sure... is it more likely to get bad gas with 10% ethanol yes. but that station would have to keep the same fuel for 45 days or more, or have a non EPA compliant tank allowing water intrusion.

Please feed me your data.. but going "that tank got 20mpg and this one got 22, that's 10% better" is not only unscientific it's most likely unusable data.. if you have a average mileage computer like Nissan, BMW and others have. use a graduated statute mile (Like every major highway has) and reset drive a given distance at a constant speed. change fuels and repeat the test. I think you'll find the results are a lot different then you WANT to believe, To use a tankful, you would have to repeat that test dozens of times, and verify the blend (a cheap alcohol test kit is ok) but repeatability of the testing variables is very important..

Hey remember one thing Science is based on fact not "beleif" if that was the case I'd make my gasoline out of that oil used for Chanukkah that should provide 800% increase

[Loren]

One thing I have learned since buying the Yaris and playing the hypermiling game: Just like in most motorsports, the DRIVER makes the biggest possible difference in the fuel economy of any vehicle. I'm gonna back Jeff up on this. Without a solid scientific test, we can't just say that a 10% difference between tanks is due to the fuel.

Somebody needs to send this to MythBusters, they like doing fuel economy myths.

[dkutin]

Hmmm... I believe you will see somewhere between a 10% - 12% increase in your MPG when using ethanol free fuel as opposed to the 10% ethanol blend. I say that for three reasons:

1) I have done my testing (granted not scientific) by sampling my mileage in a 2001 Ford Ranger Edge (3L V6) and 2006 Dodge Neon and I got just under 10% better MPG averaged over five tanks in both.

2) Nascar is running an ethanol blend for the first time ever this season and they are getting on average 12% less MPG than previous years where they ran ethanol free fuel.

3) The science backs up that ethanol is much less energy efficient than traditional ethanol free gasoline, which means you should see some increase in MPG when using ethanol free fuel. It's just a matter of how much less efficient ethanol is than real gas and how much ethanol is in the fuel.

Like I said, not really scientific, and my personal 10% increase probably was partially due to other variables (temperature was mentioned above), but you can't deny ethanol free fuel is definitely more energy efficient. You also have to remember ethanol is bad for other reasons too. It is highly corrosive and can damage engines (especially in marine engines for some reason) and screws up the edible corn markets, which impacts the global food supply. I'd be willing to drive out of my way for ethanol free fuel even if I used more energy getting there than the ethanol free fuel saved me just on principle. Ethanol blend fuel is insanity.

[Loren]

Ethanol blend fuel is insanity.

10% less dependence on foreign oil. That's what it's all about, my friend.

[kirbykirb]

Theres this one place on Clearwater/Largo Road. I was surprised personally.

[kirbykirb]

10% less dependence on foreign oil. That's what it's all about, my friend.

Actually theres more of a dependence on foreign oil if your car isn't tuned for a ethanol blend. Which 99% of cars on the road in the USA aren't...

Have a car made before 2006? Most likely it isn't tuned for ethanol, and it increases dependence because ten percent of ten gallons is essentially one gallon of ethanol~.

Car's dont like it much either.

[Ls_[eg]hatch]

Yes, I use Bollinger's Sunoco on Tyrone Blvd in St Pete. FYI the price of 93 was $3.35 last time I was in there. (727) 345-6941

dam thats right by my house ima have to go there tomorrow to get gas.

[Empire]

10% less dependence on foreign oil. That's what it's all about, my friend.

I had a little bit different thought on that.
I see it as more of a way to increase profit margin while giving the illusion of going green. ethanol is cheap compared to the fuel it is put in. So that's a significant increase right there alone. Making every car on the road get 10% (or more) less miles to the tank means that everyone is buying more gas, more often. Knocking 20 or more miles off of an average fill up means that everyone is buying at least one more gallon of gas at every fill up. Adds up quick when you spread that over everyone for the year.

[mrx007]

build a bio diesel refine kit and make your own "freedom fuel"!