Ethanol Corrosion

[senor honda]

I was in a business seminar the other night. One of the speakers from BG Fuels
talked about how Ethanol creates corrosion in cars, motorcycles and boats.

Recently, when I was trying to get someone's car running, really rusty looking
stuff was coming out of the fuel line. Has anyone had experiences like this?

Has anyone read any articles on this? Please post up if you know something.
Thanks.-Bob

[Graves]

Let me google that for you

First link says enough about what it does
Lexus Recalling 214,500 Cars for Possible Fuel Line Corrosion Caused by Ethanol - AutoObserver

Rust I would say would be from water in the tank vs. corrosion.

[senor honda]

Supposedly Ethanol attracts water........-Bob

[Graves]

Supposedly Ethanol attracts water........-Bob

This is true.

At 70 degrees Fahrenheit, conventional (non-alcohol) gasoline can dissolve up to 150 ppm (parts per million) water.
The situation is different for gasoline oxygenated with 10% volume ethanol -
The ethanol blend can dissolve much more water, up to 6000-7000 ppm.
When this blend is cooled, both the water and some of the ethanol become insoluble.

We're talking weeks of sitting in a tank though. Maybe in boats and atv it could cause an issue but I don't know too many people who sit with a tank full of gas for weeks.

[The Hedgehog]

On the subject, I can guarantee that you did not work on a car that was tuned for E85. E85 requires upgraded fuel pumps, and lines, as well as a custom tune. The shit cars you work on, and the people who own them, can't afford nice shit like that. What you saw was from water in the tank, and someone with a shitty fuel system to begin with.

[Niburu]

my only concern would be for much older cars with fuel injectors that weren't designed to run the amount of ethanol we currently see

[senor honda]

Graves,
Thanks for the info. I was on a service call and it's true,
his car had been sitting for a while.-Bob

This is true.

At 70 degrees Fahrenheit, conventional (non-alcohol) gasoline can dissolve up to 150 ppm (parts per million) water.
The situation is different for gasoline oxygenated with 10% volume ethanol -
The ethanol blend can dissolve much more water, up to 6000-7000 ppm.
When this blend is cooled, both the water and some of the ethanol become insoluble.

We're talking weeks of sitting in a tank though. Maybe in boats and atv it could cause an issue but I don't know too many people who sit with a tank full of gas for weeks.

[BABILLARACING]

yes Bob ethanol is very corrosive but i don't think 10% or less is much. but if you are running e85 all the time is different story. My fuel set up was put togheter with that in mind . anodized fuel rail , teflon coated fuel lines (aeroequip) ,e85 submergible in tank lines, injectors for e85 etc

[Graves]

yes Bob ethanol is very corrosive but i don't think 10% or less is much. but if you are running e85 all the time is different story. My fuel set up was put togheter with that in mind . anodized fuel rail , teflon coated fuel lines (aeroequip) ,e85 submergible in tank lines, injectors for e85 etc

But how many cars/trucks on the road were not even designed to run with a 10% mix? To top it off they are pushing to make it a mandatory 20% mix in the near future.

[BABILLARACING]

But how many cars/trucks on the road were not even designed to run with a 10% mix? To top it off they are pushing to make it a mandatory 20% mix in the near future.

damn 20% i did'nt know about that. i heard what you are saying. i read somewhere they make some aditive to condition the system .
here it is
Ethanol treatment improves fuels

[Paulino]

Very interesting..

[chi town brat]

I worked with BP reps over the summer of the spill and they said there is more than likely to be more than 10% in the fuel that we buy at the pump. I've also noticed friends who have had their project cars sitting for some time starting to have fuel problems. Even fuel stabilizers for cars that are stored now have an additive for the ethanol.

[CFLHorsepower]

Don't know about corrosion, however I do know it gels thus making it harder to form correct A/F ratios due to molecular breakdown. Now that's Bill Nye the Science Guy.

[lexusondubs]

graves thanks for the informative info !! i will be tearing down my E85 supra soon i will keep you all informed on any corrosion that i may find

[Kirk]

And this is why we service so many injectors. Thank you Ethanol.